Heather: [00:02:01] It's kind of a placeholder, in essence, a digital placeholder, if that's the the direction that that someone takes. So there are things to have on a website that will help you to engage with your ideal clients and that will get people excited to work with you because it'll also warm the relationship. They'll understand exactly what you do, what services you offer, and when it comes time, they're going to have less questions. They're going to be like this. This is a good fit. Okay, So I'll tell you kind of a back up for half a second and tell you a story. So like I said, I am a web designer by trade, by training initially, obviously I've done more training to to offer additional marketing services. But web design is where I started and, you know, building websites, super excited about it. Love it. Gorgeous websites. Get my first couple of clients, I was actually doing contractual work in the beginning and I would meet with clients and they would be like, Well, I mean, I would ask them. I would say, Hey, if you could just send over all your content for your website, then I'll design it out. And they'd be like, What do you put on a website? And after about getting that question about five times, I just stopped and was like, What do you put on a website? Like, what is the purpose? What is actually supposed to go on there? I know how to make it look gorgeous.

Heather: [00:03:31] I know how to make it function. But I did not know what to put on a website and I am not one to to not have an answer for someone. If I don't have an answer. And I can't say that I have an answer for everything, that's definitely not it. But if I don't have an answer, I'm going to go and figure out the answer. So I actually, as some of you know, I am a storybrand certified guide, and that's where this really came into play. So I'm a web designer. I don't know what goes on a page. I can't help my clients, which I love helping people. I love, like giving people knowledge, sharing knowledge. And so that really, really bothered me. And so then I discovered Storybrand and Storybrand was a great way. It just it really broke it down into very simple terms. These are the things you should have on your website. This is how it's going to help you. Obviously, one of the big things with Storybrand is that you're not talking about you, your business. You are talking about how you solve your customer or client's problem. And so when we talk, when we are communicating on our website, we need to make sure that it's not just like I went to school and I got a master's degree and I, you know, been doing this for 25 years, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Heather: [00:04:57] Right? Because that's what people are going to do. It's kind of going to be like Charlie Brown's teacher, my mom, my mom. Okay, maybe I didn't do that, right? If you have a good Charlie Brown's teacher impression, send it to me. I'd love to hear it. So. Let's talk let's break this down in real terms. What do you put on a website? Well, there's a couple of different things that you put on a website. And this doesn't have to be like your home page. This is the website. So not all of these sections will go on your home page. Many of them will, but some of them we save for different pages, your bout page or your service page or where it makes sense. That's where we put it. So first off, on a website, you absolutely have to have a good header. You have to in some way catch their attention very quickly so that they want to continue reading. So that's number one and that goes across all pages. You need to have a good header and each of those headers for each of those pages should obviously be in line with with your core messaging. So you don't want to like go off into right field and totally be like, What? They just confused me.

Heather: [00:06:11] They were talking about you know, green and now they're talking about purple or something like that. Um, talking about unicorns. And all of a sudden we just started talking about narwhals, right? So we need to make sure that it's consistent, that it is on brand or on theme. Write your website. Everything. All of these different parts need to be consistent on theme. So we've got our header. Our header needs to very quickly do a couple of things. It needs to tell them exactly what services you offer. Tell them how it'll benefit them, what will their life look like afterwards, and then of course have a call to action. So most likely that's going to be a button. You need to have a button. Put a button. I've got another whole podcast on call to Action buttons. Check it out. I won't get on that soapbox about that today. Go and listen to the other podcast. So those are the three things they need to understand exactly what you do. Very quickly, you've got very like like seconds to engage with them, to be clear as to what you offer. Once we are done with the header or once we have that header, then we need to talk about what's at stake. This is something that a lot of websites miss out on. They miss the opportunity to talk about what is at stake. What I mean by that is they fail to to highlight what it looks like if they don't work with like if you don't work with the business.

Heather: [00:07:53] So for example, if you were a PT like a physical therapist, this what's at stake is that they may continue to be in physical pain if they do not come to you or if you want. This is an opportunity to differentiate yourself from other physical therapists. If you have some certain process or system, they may continue to, you know, maybe there they wonder what's going on or they just they get a couple of, um, physical therapy sessions without any luck. So maybe it's about the process, Maybe you have an amazing process. And so they will continue to kind of again, it boils down to that, that their life is, is they're still going to be some kind of pain. They may not understand their diagnosis. Maybe they're not getting to the root cause of of the pain. Maybe they're someone's just trying to fix the the top layer of pain versus figuring out what is actually truly causing the discomfort or pain. That because if you don't fix the root problem. Right, you're not going to fix it. So, um, there's a couple things that we need to be careful of. Obviously, you don't want to get like. Too far in the doldrums. Like depressed people and get. But you definitely need to have. Like, just poke at the pain point. Poke. We're not hitting. We're not slapping the pain point. We're poking at the pain point. If you were baking, this would be the salt in the recipe, whereas the sugar is everything else.

Heather: [00:09:35] So we just need a touch, a pinch of salt. Right. So let's talk about what terrible thing could happen if they don't use your service. That's really what we want to do. The next section is called Value Proposition. This is where the sugar comes in. This is where you get to tell them. You know, all the benefits of working with you, going back to that idea of being a physical therapist. Maybe you have a very clear process. Maybe you have an amazing diagnostic tool. Maybe you have friendly employees or fun atmosphere, whatever that is. Write down what success looks like. Write down the benefits of working with you. Just make a list and then pick three of them that support that. Your steaks that go back to the steaks. So you always want to be like making sure that you're staying consistently on brand, Right? But really talk about three of the benefits that come in working with you or that they can see in the long term. Even so, it could be just benefits working with you or it could be benefits of long term, no longer having pain, being free to enjoy activities that that they weren't able to participate in. Again, whatever those benefits look like. And then we've got the authority section or the guide section. A lot of businesses only use the authority section, authority. You you have to establish some kind of a authority, Right.

Heather: [00:11:19] We need to say, okay, yes, you know what you're talking about. You went to school. You so but this but the way you do it, you have to be very careful. It's not just i, i, i, i, i. Instead, you want to do two things. One, express empathy. And you could say, I understand that you have been in pain for years. Our our process is going to help you identify the pain, alleviate the pain and get back to living your life to the fullest or participating fully in life. Um, and then there's the second area authority. Authority is we've helped over, you know, 500 or 1000 or others who have had knee pain and been able to get back to living their life pain free. Um, that's one way of expressing authority. Another is just saying. We've been helping people since 2003 or whatever. So this is not a full on bio. It's it's very much like. In a very succinct way, expressing how you are an authority in the field, how you know what you're talking about. Um, but, but on the, the bio, let's, let's talk about that for just a half a second because. Most websites have an about page. Most websites have a bios on the about page. Again, a lot of people just start talking about themselves and they'll be like, I went to school or I graduated in school from in 2008 with my PhD in this or that or whatever.

Heather: [00:13:21] While that's important. While that is what helped you to become the professional that you are, to give you the knowledge that you need. People only care about your degree, your education, your experience expertise. They only care about it as far as it is going to help them. And so when you think about it in those terms, when you're like, okay. This is not about me. It's not about tooting my own horn. It's about. Talking about my education experience in terms of how it's helps my prospective clients. And that's a big shift in your mind when you really think about it, that all of a sudden you are saying. Um, you know, I have always been. Maybe you tell a backstory. Maybe there is some story. I've worked with speech language pathologists who they themselves were in speech therapy services as a child. And so it was very clear early on that they enjoyed. You know, being in speech so much and they wanted to help others. And so you can give that. You can give a why. But you can also say something like, um. With, you know, talk about the desire to help others. But in the you know, you could say something like okay in um. With a goal to help others live pain free. I decided to pursue my physical therapy to be to get a PhD in physical therapy so that they could live pain free and, you know, live their best lives.

Heather: [00:15:19] Or, you know, that's again a why you could talk about I had a knee injury at the age of 17 that didn't allow me to continue the sports that I enjoyed. And and while I was doing I realized that I really enjoyed the the industry and was passionate about helping. I wanted to be able to help others like like those that helped me. Um, so like I said, again, it's about telling a story, inviting them into a story of how you can help them, how you can help them, how you can help them. Is there an echo? Um, that's the, that's the thought that I want ingrained is how you help them. Um, okay, so a couple different areas that we have. One is pricing that can or cannot be like you can put it on your website or you can decide not to put it on your website. That's really a preference. Um, what you can do is instead of just like placing your pricing on your website is that you can talk about the different services that you do. So, you know, let's say that you do, um. If we're an SLP clinic. So a speech language pathologist, you could do okay. We do autism groups. Group therapy. We do Myofunctional therapy, which is a ten week program or something like that. And then we do weekly speech therapy for articulation and language comprehension. You just listed like what services you provide. You didn't put any price points to it, but you have that listed.

Heather: [00:17:10] If you're a mental health professional, you could say, you know, we do weekly. Individual therapy. Couples therapy. You could do like individual couples therapy or you could do like, what if you did, like, group therapy? You know, like couples group therapy or pre-marital group therapy, whatever it is. So you list off your services, you list off your pricing if if you want to add that to it. But that shows really clearly what services you provide. Um. And then one of my favorite. Sections on a website is the plan or the process section people really enjoy. Knowing what like painting a picture, what the next steps look like, what they should be doing. They like to follow steps. And so having steps. Very, very clearly laid out is going to help them. You know, if you were crossing a stream and if someone told you, okay, go to this stone, you know, this boulder or this or that, or, you know, this rock and that rock and this rock, then it'd be really easy. But navigating it yourself may mean that you might slip and on a slimy rock and fall into the water. Right? Um, so 3 to 4 steps. Four is the max. Once you get over four, then you confuse people. This is not every step in working with you. We are not talking about every minute detail. We don't need to be like, Hey, let's get on a consult call and then we're going to, um.

Heather: [00:18:55] You know, fill out an intake form and then bill insurance and then da da da da da da. They don't need to know this is high level. This is whatever your call to action is, is usually step number one. So let's say it's. Schedule a consultation. Step number two could be that beginning stages diagnose or assess, you know, your pain and then finally step that third step or fourth, depending on if you need a third in between step. Step number three, if you wanted it, it could be attend weekly therapy or a ten therapy. Um, or you can skip over to that to the last, the final step. The final step would be. What life looks like afterwards. Participate fully in life. Be Be free of pain, whatever that looks like. So you are painting a picture on how to get over each one of these stones. Which stones to use to get over the stream. And. And that. You know, it's so great. There's there's clarity in that and there's structure in that. And like I said, people really like to follow steps. So make sure you have your steps on getting started on how we work with you. Nobody wants to look at your website and be confused as to how to start working together. They're like, Should I call? Should I do this? Should I do that? Like what? What is it? Um, the there's a couple other areas.

Heather: [00:20:37] Obviously, we have some explanatory paragraph that really is, is what we call a one liner. It says what you do so point out a problem, how you solve it and what the end result looks like. Um, so it's, it's typically a couple of sentences, a paragraph you can. You know, when you're creating content, use that in different contexts. So you've got one on your home page and maybe you have one on your bout page that talks a little bit more about your business and the problem it solves for the client. The service page it would be very like if you have different service page, let's say you have a couples therapy and individual therapy. Well, the couples therapy is going to solve a different problem than the individual therapy, right? And so those that that content is going to be different. The final section on a website is your footer or in Storybrand, as we lovingly like to call it, your junk drawer. And you know that drawer. We all have one. I think I have three. I think I definitely have three. I think I've got one in my bedroom, one in my kitchen and one somewhere else. I don't know. We won't we won't talk about the junk drawers, but at least my junk drawers. We're going to talk about your website's junk drawer, though. The junk drawer is where you put all of the information that you don't know where to put. Now, I'm not talking about let's, like, shove it full of stuff, but you will have all of the pages that you have on your website on there.

Heather: [00:22:16] You will have social media links on there. You can have a lead generator or like an email signup for a lead generator on there. Um, you can have obviously your privacy policy or terms and condition. All the legal jargon that goes with a website is going to be on there. Your copyright. All of that kind of stuff. Because let me back up for just a second. I didn't even go into your menu because your menu shouldn't the menu on the top of your website should not have every page listed. We don't need a smorgasbord. This isn't like all you can eat buffet. You want to guide them through your website, which means catering the experience. So you present the information in the way that you feel like it is best served. Don't give them everything at once with like, here's every page that I have on my website. Here's everything you need to know. No, Instead give it to them little by little. Um. You know, feed them slowly. Let's not, you know, give them a huge platter and be like, What do you want to eat first? It's overwhelming. So hopefully this has helped you to figure out your website a little bit more. So my takeaway or challenge this week is to really work through each one of these sections. I will add some links in the bottom of this that you can go through and actually identify, you know, some of these different sections and to help you start workshopping all of these different areas for your website.

Heather: [00:23:56] Hopefully this answers the question what should I have on my website because. You know, when you have a website that really communicates and is clear and talks to your ideal client, all of a sudden the the leads you get are going to actually understand what you do. You're going to stop getting all of those calls where it's like, hey, do you do you like do this or that or random? And they're going to understand exactly. Assuming they've been on your website, they're going to understand exactly what you do, how you can help them and what the end result is going to look like. And they're going to be excited to work with you because you are going to be different. They are going to be like, Wow, this website is amazing. This is something like, I'm so glad that they're talking to me instead about them or worse. I'm so glad that it's talking to me instead of Google bots. Because let's face it, if your website was written for purely SEO keyword purposes, that is not for human consumption. Nobody wants to read that. Google bots probably don't even really want to read it. It gets pretty dry pretty quick. So go through this, you know, take one section at a time and just kind of spruce it up, work on one page at a time, whatever that looks like to you.

Heather: [00:25:24] Whatever is a measurable goal or a small goal that you can be like, you know what, I'm just going to work on my home page and I'm going to spruce it up. Um, and then there's something else. You guys, you don't have to do this alone. We have. Actually, if your website is just kind of, uh, like, I'm embarrassed to, you know, it's kind of like that mess when someone comes over to your house and you don't know that they're coming over and you're like, Oh, shoot. Like, my kitchen looks like a mess. Whatever. If you're embarrassed by your website, then we have we have started building website templates. This is a done with you program. You can check it out on our website. It is We guide you through every step of getting everything you need for your website. Like let's gather up the pieces and then you pick the template. One of our templates that we have created for those within the Allied health professionals and we build the site for you. You don't have to build the site. How cool is that? But we give you every tool you need to get you ready for us to get you a gorgeous site that looks good, that speaks to your clients and that you're going to be proud of and you're going to want to show off to everyone. So what's better than that? And at a very affordable price, because we know that this is especially geared for like startups or solopreneurs, very small businesses, because you shouldn't have to have a website that is unsightly or embarrassing or that you're hoping that people don't really actually find like you should be.

Heather: [00:27:11] You should love your website and it should look like a part of your business because I know that you provide amazing services and you should have a website that really showcases what you do, the value you bring and the services you offer. Hey guys, this is another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. I really hope that you take all of this to heart and keep marketing just one step at a time, block out a little bit of time each week to continue your marketing journey, because six months from now you'll be amazed at what you've accomplished and you're going to be excited about your business. Marketing doesn't have to be something that you're like, Oh my gosh, I need to avoid. I know it needs to be done. It doesn't have to be a root canal. It can be fun, it can be enjoyable, and it can be exciting to see what happens when you're marketing your business. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Mor: [00:01:36] Thank you for having me. I'm very excited.

Heather: [00:01:39] Yeah, definitely. So first off, I just want to allow you to introduce yourself. Let's talk a little bit about your background. Sure. And and what you've been doing just so that we can get to know you.

Mor: [00:01:53] Yeah, of course. So my background is quite diverse. I used to work in international development in Haiti, and then I went to business school over in Berkeley. And, um, and I always had a passion for therapy and was always interested in kind of psychology. And so a few years ago, I, you know, on the weekend in the evenings, got a master's in family therapy, got my MFA and began working as a therapist part time while also working full time in tech. So I kind of wear both both hats. But I'm really passionate about this topic, about talking about money as a therapist in particular. So I'm excited to to be on on here with you.

Heather: [00:02:38] Yeah, definitely. I did not know part of your history that you were in Haiti for a while, so that's very cool. I'd love to hear some stories. Um, we'll save that for another day, but I'd love to hear about your travels and all of those experiences. Um, and I love that you went back to school because you had that interest. We have that in common. You know, I was an English major once upon a time and then went back to school and web design, So, um, I just was interested in it. So I love that you have that as well. Um, so. Uh, and then you talked about like, you know, this, that you work in tech, but then you also see clients and, and how cool is that? Um, because I know that's a hot topic in the therapy world. And so you can kind of see both sides and the benefits and things like that. Um, so let's talk about money.

Mor: [00:03:35] Let's talk about money. Like, there.

Heather: [00:03:37] Should be like a song going on right now. Let's talk about money.

Mor: [00:03:41] Yeah.

Heather: [00:03:43] Uh, we'll we'll put that in later for sure. Um, so why is it difficult for people to talk about money, especially? Therapy based businesses.

Mor: [00:03:56] Oh, man. Of course. This is like I feel so passionate about this topic because on the one hand, I have this background in business in my MBA, and I think really analytically about like, you know, income and revenue and how we're thinking about things. And then as I got into the therapy space, I kind of learned that talking about money and thinking about money and thinking about therapy as your career and how you can make it work financially is so challenging because money is almost like a bad word in therapy. We're expected in a way to treat our clients like we just love them. And we do. We do love them. I love my clients, but it's just kind of out of us, of our hearts that we're working with them and having to navigate and and point to the fact that really it is a business arrangement in a way. And it is your your career can can, you know, feel at times at odds with being a caring therapist that is building trust, that is building that relationship that is so important for therapy to even be effective?

Heather: [00:05:04] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I've said this before, I've, I've kind of gotten on my little pedestal a little bit on social media about it every once in all. But I truly believe that it is okay to to help others and build a thriving clinic at the same time. I don't think that they have to be exclusive. I think that they can be inclusive because as you build your business, you're able to help more people, you're able to extend that. And so, you know, I want to challenge anyone who's who's had that thinking, who's struggled with that, thinking that maybe think about it in a different way, maybe thinking about it as, as I build my clinic, I can help or my practice I can help more people. You know, with their challenges and their struggles and the things that they're facing in their lives.

Mor: [00:05:57] Yes, I love that. And I also like to challenge therapists that even if it's just for you because you are valued at at that rate and because you want to spend your time with your family or and other things. And even if you don't feel like a lot of times we have to kind of find excuses that are around being serving others to assert what we need for ourselves. And I actually feel like the more we're comfortable with the real blatant truth of things and with really taking care of ourselves, the more that we signal that when we speak to our clients like it's not, there's nothing wrong with me not taking insurance. There's nothing wrong with my rate being X, This is just what I'm this is what I'm comfortable with. I think it really starts with that. Getting comfortable with yourself about what what you're going to charge, what you're worth and and not feeling like you have to make any excuses for it.

Heather: [00:06:55] Yes, I love that so much. I really I do think that is some kind of an internal struggle or conversation, at least that we need to have is what is my value and and understanding that is also and coming. I guess understanding that and being okay with that also helps you to bring more value to your clients.

Mor: [00:07:20] Totally, Totally. And I will tell you so in my in my associateship right now, I'm on like a sliding scale. So I have to have these conversations with clients all the time where they, you know, get a referral. I contact a client, they know that I'm on a sliding scale, that I'm for affordable, you know, folks that are looking for affordable therapy, but they don't know what that means. And I have to have a conversation of, you know, some people are expecting to pay $20 a session. You know, there's I have to be able to say this is what I'm starting at. Here's what I'm open to. And this is why. And at first it was really hard. And I think a big part of that for me was because I hadn't kind of clarified in my mind what was my walkaway point. I hadn't really clarified, like what I need, what I'm comfortable with, what I'm not. As soon as it was clear to me the whole way that I communicated it and the kind of assertiveness that I spoke about my rates at really changed. Yeah, I think kind of having that clarity is important.

Heather: [00:08:25] Um, so what are some of the challenges that you have encountered when talking about money?

Mor: [00:08:32] Yeah, think I think, you know, I have had all kinds of challenges this year in particular, as I mentioned, because of all of those sliding scale conversations. I think I think, you know, I actually am I'm laughing kind of remembering one of my most cringe worthy experiences was with this with this couple where I really wanted to work with them. I'm passionate about couples therapy. I'm working on getting certified with EFT, and I really wanted to work with them. They were really kind of on the lower end of the budget. Um, and I was like, You know, maybe we can just try a session, see how you feel. Because I was almost thinking like, if you try it, you'll, you'll want to do it. But then in the process, in my, in my, in my sight, I realized I couldn't really just give like a free, a freebie session. Like that's not really something you do. You have to have people sign a bunch of confidentiality forms. There's all these things and you don't want to do. Start working with someone who has a zero capacity to pay. So it's just not it's not a good idea. So I try to walk it back. Actually. I try to say, you know, actually it can be whatever you're comfortable paying, but like, I really got to collect something.

Mor: [00:09:49] It turned into this scenario where my client was like, I feel like really wronged. I feel like you going back on what you said. So before we even started therapy, we're, you know, really off to a bad start. And I remember thinking I just wanted to, like, run for the hills. Just like, never mind. But I couldn't. Like, you can't. That's not you can't do that ethically as a as a therapist. So it ended up working out. We had like a really direct conversation about it, um, you know, and we repaired what we call in therapy repaired and kind of like made the person comfortable and kind of feel heard. And now they're one of my favorite clients to work, to work with. But I think, I think there's all kinds of messy challenges that come up when you're trying to figure out like, what are you comfortable with? What are you saying to the other person? And again, I think part of that goes back to really having clarity on like what you will or won't do, what your rates are, where you have flexibility and where you don't.

Heather: [00:10:47] When you bring up such a good point that when you don't have clarity, when you aren't comfortable, maybe that's another word to when you're not comfortable with, you know, your pricing and your pricing model, people can feel that. Then, like you said, you get in trouble because you say something and then backpedal, and then there's that loss of trust. Yeah. And you're and you're having to try to repair the relationship like you said. So it's better. Which brings us really to that point of setting up some expectations from the beginning. I think that is one of the big things that needs to happen is, is that you need to be able to have that conversation right at the beginning. Obviously, you can't just like, you know, start, um. Having sessions and then just build them and then be like, What? Wait a second, we didn't have this conversation. So having all of this set up in the beginning helps the relationship to move forward in a healthy way that is going to help your clients in the long run.

Mor: [00:11:54] Yeah, definitely think think. Having that kind of expectation upfront is important. I also think another thing I've learned, I've done some research on this since since having some snafu's and the other thing that I've read about is like not overexplaining. A lot of times when you over explain why your rate is X or why you don't accept insurance, you're you're really signaling that you aren't feeling strong in your position. And so being comfortable, just putting it out there and my rate is X, you know, pause and also not expecting folks to necessarily be able to confirm straight away. Some people make the mistake of starting to negotiate against themselves after they've stated their rate because they're not hearing an immediate definitive response. But actually, if you if you let people know like go ahead and take time to think about it, check your finances, that's not a bad thing. If someone needs a little bit of time to to confirm their availability and their budget.

Heather: [00:13:00] Um, and that actually you saying that sparks a thought. You know, I'm in a, in a sales group and, and I know that's a bad word to say with anything with marketing or with, with therapy. But one of the things that we talk about, like if I'm, if I'm on a call, you know, with a prospect and things like that is pausing, you talk about the money and then you pause. And for us, it's more uncomfortable than it probably is for them because you're like, Oh my goodness. Like what's like you have this internal, like whole thought process going on. You're like, what are they thinking? I can't read them. I, you know, you don't know them that much that well, anyways, so, um, but but it's okay to have a pause. It's okay because people need to think about things. They need to be like, okay, Yes, I get it. This is where you're at. Yes, that sounds good. Let's move forward. Or like you said. You know what? Let me talk with my spouse or, you know, my significant other or whoever or let me think about it, whatever that is. It's okay to have a pause.

Mor: [00:14:06] Totally. Totally. And I think, you know, a lot of a couple of times I've had clients end up going away and talking with like, you know, whether it is like a grandparent or someone who actually helps support them, they might not have the answers to how to finance your rate straight away, but maybe, you know, if they think about it and they want to make that investment, they they will find different ways to do it. So whether it's a pause or even just a like, let me know we can talk, you know, it's not going to you're not going to get the answer on the call, right. Then you don't need to close and finalize that at the moment. And feeling desperate to do so. Actually, again, signal kind of a lack of confidence in your in your rate and in your your.

Heather: [00:14:52] Value and people can sense that desperation feel. Um, yeah. So I agree with that 100%. So so one of the, the thoughts that, you know, as I was thinking about preparing for this podcast and things like that is that one idea that I had is just, I mean, a lot of therapists put it right there on their website, so it's right there so people can find it. Another option is, is, you know, creating a flier or a handout, right when you meet with them. And by doing that, you're taking a little bit of the pressure off yourself because it's like they've already seen it or you you know, you let the flier or your website do the talking for you, at least some of it, you know.

Mor: [00:15:35] You know, that's an interesting idea. Heather. I don't know if 100% would make that recommendation. I'll tell you why. I think for me, sometimes people don't know what they want. They think they might be, you know, get the kind of potential clients who think they are just looking for the cheapest possible therapist, you know, and they're only comparing you based on on rate. But so what I like to do, I do no more than 15 minute consults when I'm talking to a potential client and I tell them, you know, I'll go over kind of where I work, how I work, my rates and everything. But first I want to see if we're even a fit. I want to know what you're coming to therapy for and I'll tell you a little bit about how I would work with you and see if you're interested in learning more. Um, and at that point, I can kind of give them a sense and a flavor for, for my work. So, for example, if it's a client that's interested in couples work, you know, there's a certain modality that has that is the only evidence based practice for couples work, which is EFT. And so I can tell them about that. I can tell them about how we structure it, how many sessions like what we do in each stage. And they can really get a sense of like, Wow, this person really knows what they're talking about. And so when it gets time to talking about the rate, they're not just comparing me on an apples to apples like number two number from their alternatives. They're also comparing how they feel talking to me and what they think their confidence about working with me. So that's why I would recommend unless you are like really just competing on rate. Yeah. Um, and you are on a race to the bottom, then I would recommend actually having that consult call, giving yourself a chance to put your best foot forward and then, and then hitting them with the cost because therapy is not cheap.

Heather: [00:17:27] Yeah. Yeah. And you bring up such a good point. I love that. Um, you know, and maybe with that in mind, maybe you don't. Maybe that's the challenge. Maybe you think to yourself, maybe it doesn't make sense to have it on my website. I know a lot of therapists like to have that on there and as a because they want to avoid that conversation. So but I agree with.

Heather: [00:17:48] You.

Heather: [00:17:49] That um, that having that conversation with them getting because therapy is very personal, you have to have someone that you mesh well with and. So having the consult first is important and then you can still have, you know, maybe you, you send them a link afterwards that or you have a flier afterwards. And so then they can see it on paper if they have questions later on or something like that.

Mor: [00:18:19] You actually bring up a really good point and want to roll back some of my pushback, which is it depends on where you are too. Like if I'm like building my practice and I'm trying to get more clients, I might be willing to have more of those conversations to pitch myself. And if you're already well established and you have a lot of clients and you're only looking for a trickle of serious folks who are within your budget, then maybe you don't mind that you might turn away those price sensitive folks and save yourself time on the 15 minute consult. So it's definitely depends. But I do think you actually remind me of something which I know we haven't gotten to yet, but we should chat at some point about the, the tool that I think we were talking about that many people embed into their website, the benefits checker that can kind of help clients assess for themselves if they can afford therapy by checking their out-of-network benefits and seeing what their true cost would be and saving the therapist from having to have that back and forth conversation. So I do think that's something else that folks can do.

Heather: [00:19:26] Yes, definitely. And I want to talk about that in just a second. First, one other thought actually as we were having this discussion is that, you know, not everyone's going to be for you, not everyone, whether that's personality, whether that's their own financial circumstances. Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera. Right. We could go off on a list. Um, so one thing I think and and let me know what's your thoughts on this? But as we were discussing, I thought would be that, you know, if I'm not the right fit, whether that be from a personality, um, or a financial here are some alternatives for you. And so never just like being like, nope, I'm not Right. Sorry. Goodbye. You know, you're on your way, but you're continuing to serve them in some capacity by saying, I understand that this might not be the right situation for you, but here are some alternatives that I that I might suggest. Here are some other people that might be a good fit for you. And so making.

Heather: [00:20:25] Love.

Heather: [00:20:25] Validations so that they're not just left in like a lurch feeling like, well, I don't know what to do. I still have my I still have a problem. I still need help. Who am I supposed to go to now?

Mor: [00:20:37] I think that's such a good point. And I actually have noticed that when I tell folks like some folks are like, Oh, that's a little out of my budget. Sometimes I tell folks, you know, think about it. If you want, I'd be happy to help connect you to someone else in my practice that could be more aligned with your budget. And I've been surprised that people really seem to take that as like, Wow, this person cares. They're not just out for like the max dollar. It builds trust. And if for me, most of the time it actually brings the, you know, the clients over the fence towards like, no, I actually do want to move forward working with you. So I agree. And even if they don't like it's, you know, it's a good it's a good practice. People are looking for help. And even if you're not the right fit, you can easily kind of have that referral list that you send them over.

Heather: [00:21:29] Yeah. And I think the big thing is at the end of the day, it's about serving them and helping them. And so whether that be that they work with you in therapy or they find someone else, you're still able to serve them by, you know, by giving to them freely.

Mor: [00:21:51] Exactly.

Heather: [00:21:53] And it doesn't. Yeah, it's one of those things. It doesn't hurt. And like you said, it builds that additional trust. They're like, wow, okay. They're not just there to maybe, you know, fill my their schedule or to add those kinds of things that might cross their mind. Instead, they're like, they truly care about me and truly care about helping me through this time in my life.

Mor: [00:22:18] 100%. 100%?

Heather: [00:22:20] Yeah. So.

Heather: [00:22:22] Um, and there are some differences. You know, one thing that we haven't really brought up is insurance versus private pay, you know, because.

Heather: [00:22:31] That's.

Mor: [00:22:31] A big.

Heather: [00:22:32] One.

Heather: [00:22:32] Yeah, Some clinics are take insurance except insurance, while others are private pay only. So having that discussion about money is different depending where you're at.

Mor: [00:22:48] Yeah. And a lot of people, you know, a lot of people do a mix of things. Some people take only insurance, some people are just private pay and then people are kind of there's that. A lot of people are actually trying to transition away from insurance and build their private pay practice. So actually, one thing we haven't touched on is, is my role. So I mentioned that I work in tech, but I lead therapy, experience and growth for men. And what we actually do is we help therapy artists grow their own private pay practice and do that by being able to step away from insurance while connecting their clients in a compassionate way to a service that will take care of all of that hassle for them and get them money back, get their clients money back on the sessions without putting the therapists on the hook.

Heather: [00:23:37] Yes.

Heather: [00:23:38] Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think what Montaya does is, is genius and great. It's so nice for. I feel like it's that that third option because for some it's like, okay, I'm only private pay and or else they're insurance. But it's kind of that third option where it's like I can I can be private pay, but I can still, you know, there's that way for clients to to be able to utilize their benefits of their health insurance.

Mor: [00:24:10] Yeah, exactly. Because I think a lot of times therapists, at least the therapists I've talked to, maybe think about it more in a black and white way. Like either I take on 100% of the insurance hassle and keep my rates like X and make it really accessible, or I'm totally leaving my clients in the lurch. If I tell them, you know, I'm not doing insurance anymore and they're going to just be hit with this huge extra cost. But the reality is there is that gray middle ground option, which is like, I'm not doing this, but here's a service like you can use. And a lot of people don't even know that they can be reimbursed with out-of-network benefits, like up to, you know, 80% of their session costs. So that, you know, knowing that actually makes clients more likely to to see the therapist of their choice instead of being on these like long wait lists and looking endlessly to find somebody who accepts insurance.

Heather: [00:25:06] Yeah.

Mor: [00:25:07] Within what they're looking for.

Heather: [00:25:09] Yes. Yeah.

Heather: [00:25:10] And then all of a sudden they're empowered because like you said, they're able to pick and not an insurance. They're able to pick the therapist that they really want or that they, you know, maybe they've done a consultation. They've decided, okay, well, from a financial standpoint, I just can't do this at this point. But then knowing that there is a way that they can be reimbursed allows them to instead of just being like, this is a therapist, you get now all of a sudden this is the therapist that you actually want to work with and and that can really help you in your life journey.

Heather: [00:25:49] Totally, totally.

Mor: [00:25:50] Think. I think that, you know, the other thing is, just like people have such an aversion to dealing with insurance, they, you know, they think about it like going to the DMV or getting like a cavity filled or something. It's just like, oh, you know, these clunky websites and having to remember your super bills.

Heather: [00:26:09] And I'm going to spend an hour.

Heather: [00:26:11] On hold with insurance company like, Oh my God, I.

Heather: [00:26:15] Just don't want to deal.

Mor: [00:26:16] With that. So, so when you're on a consult call and someone is like, Oh, I can't afford that. Um, you know, you have one of two options. You can either tell them like, okay, go call up your insurance and see if you have this thing that you maybe have never heard of called out-of-network benefits, and then see if you can understand what the information they give you and then call me back and maybe then we'll start working together and that, you know, you're just going to that's the likeliness of all of those things happening are pretty low. But then if you use, you know, like a benefits calculator, like the one Montaya has, you can say, you know, I don't I don't feel claims, but if you grab your insurance card, I can check real quick what your what your rate if you get if you're eligible for out of network benefits and then we just spit out like, okay, this is what this person's deductible is. This is how many sessions at your rate it'll take for them to meet their deductible. And then this is the percent they can expect back. And right then you can give them some concrete information and say, this is what your insurance estimate is, this is what you my rate would end up working out to for you. So even though I charge $200, you know, it would work out to 105 as the estimate and they can file your claims for you so you don't have to do anything. So at that point, our super user therapists say that like that kind of framing really helps bring people over the over the the fence and really across the finish line willing to work with you.

Heather: [00:27:51] Yeah, that's great. Um, so that actually brings us to our takeaway and challenge. Every podcast episode. We always have some kind of takeaways or challenges and we actually kind of have two for you today. Um, two.

Heather: [00:28:07] For the price of.

Heather: [00:28:07] One. Yes, two for the price of one. So you guys are getting bonus today. Um, so first off, the one is like, like Morehead said, Montoya has a benefits checker that you can embed on your website or that you can just use with while you're doing consultations, things like that. So talk a little bit about more about that.

Heather: [00:28:34] What you're. Yes.

Mor: [00:28:35] Yes. So as you mentioned, you can either just embed it into your website and folks when they go to your website before they even have a consult call with, you can just grab their insurance card, put in their information, be like, oh, okay, this would be what I would actually pay with this person or or you can complete it for them. When you're on on a call, you can just hit, check the website and enter in the information. So that's the benefits calculator. And then and then I don't know. I'm trying to think if there's another piece to that. Oh, and then the claim submission that we just do automatically if clients are interested but they don't have to, they can choose to file their own claims.

Heather: [00:29:16] Yeah. And you guys right now there is an opportunity for them to be able to try this out for free, correct?

Mor: [00:29:23] That's right. We are giving listeners to this podcast a one month free trial of the benefits calculator with the promo code TMS.

Heather: [00:29:34] And really the idea behind it is like, try it out for a month. See if it works and see if it increases your conversion. See, you know, you can see what the clients think of it. You can kind of, you know, play around with yourself, see if you like it. And then if it works, check.

Mor: [00:29:52] Your own card, your family's card.

Heather: [00:29:54] Right.

Mor: [00:29:54] It's totally unlimited use. So a lot of people have fun with it.

Heather: [00:29:58] Yeah.

Heather: [00:29:59] And if it helps your business to continue to grow, if it helps you to, you know, take away some of that, um, objections that you might receive from prospects or potential clients, then maybe that's something that you incorporate within your business. Um, and that leads us to kind of number two. So take away challenge number two that more and had kind of discussed was to create a talk, a script, talking points, something and that by creating a script that allows you to get more comfortable because we can all go based on a script. But if someone asks us like a question that we're not prepared for, you know, sometimes you don't know how to handle it. And so by creating a script about, you know, your payment, how payment is handled and you know what payment looks like, you are able to be confident in that conversation.

Mor: [00:31:02] 100%. And we will go ahead and share with you as well. Heather, the the script that we have gotten from a lot of therapists that works for them for explaining that they don't accept insurance but how they can support their clients in case folks want to adapt or use any part of that as well.

Heather: [00:31:21] Yes, definitely. So check that out in the podcast notes. That's going to be there as well. And you guys, check this out. I think the big takeaway also third takeaway I guess, is, is make a plan, get comfortable with yourself and your pricing model, whatever that is, because when you're comfortable with it, when you're confident and clear on it, then you will be able to, you know, set clear expectations from the beginning and working with clients. So anything else that you want to kind of add, throw in about min tire? Um, no.

Mor: [00:32:05] I think I think thank you so much for having me and, and folks can definitely feel free to reach out with any questions. We have a wonderful product specialist Maria who can walk you through things, do onboarding for you and answer any questions. So do reach out if you're interested.

Heather: [00:32:22] Perfect. Well, thank.

Heather: [00:32:23] You so much for being on this and I've enjoyed this conversation. Um, it's something that. Keeps coming. That comes up often, you know, as as we work with clients and things like that or as therapists work with clients. And so I hope it's of value to them, gives them some kind of little ideas, spark some ideas in their mind and how they can navigate this part of, of being either a business owner or even just any therapist. The conversation comes up whether you're a business owner or not. So thank you again so much for being here.

Heather: [00:32:59] Thank you.

Heather: [00:33:00] And guys, thank you again for listening to another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing you all.

Heather: [00:33:09] We're glad you could be here today.

Heather: [00:33:11] Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Heather: [00:01:49] And so email marketing is a very effective tool. And like I said, if you're not doing it, you may be missing out on huge opportunities to connect with your ideal clients. So there's a lot of benefits for email marketing. One is, is that you own the list of contacts, unlike social media, social media, when if you were to close your account, you would lose all those contacts. If for some reason the social media platform decided to up and quit one day, they're like, Yeah, we're done. I don't see that happening. But then you, you know, that's gone. It's just gone. All those contact. S And so while social media has a place, it is not the only type of marketing that you should be doing. And, and it may not even be the best type of marketing that you should be doing. It really depends on your business, your following, because it's great to have followers on social media, but if there are other clinics, unless they're sending you referrals, they may not be, you know, you might still not be connecting with your ideal client. So that's one of those questions you have to ask yourself Who is on your social media list? Who is following you? If they're not your ideal client, then again, maybe that's not the place for you. Um, but in our last episode that I recorded about repurposing content, you can use email marketing and social media hand in hand.

Heather: [00:03:24] That's the good news. So let's, let's again, let's talk about some of these benefits. So you own the list of contacts. Um, there's a higher return on investment, typically with email marketing. In fact, HubSpot, which is a CRM for marketing, says that they did a study and they reported that there is a 4,200% return on investment. That's huge, guys. And why why exactly is that? Because email marketing is is relatively inexpensive. So. The biggest expense in email marketing is, is typically if you hire someone, then there's that, obviously. But if you're doing it on your own, the biggest expense is your time. Um and so 4,200% return on investment. I don't know. That might mean that you might need to look at email marketing. You might be, like I said, missing something. Um, that is also 3,600% higher than the average return on investment for paid advertising. And paid advertising would be like Google ads. Social media ads. You know, any kind of ads that you are putting out there. So, wow, that's huge, guys. Again, you are getting a huge return on investment for doing it. Other benefits are that you're warming the relationship. When people go to your website, they may or may not be ready to book an appointment if they are not booked, ready to book an appointment appointment, what comes next? Do they just like, Oh, I don't want to book an appointment and they leave.

Heather: [00:05:15] I mean, you're missing an opportunity right there. Um, I tell clients and this is from Donald Miller Storybrand that your call to action button, which is like book an appointment or something like that, is asking someone. To marry you. It's that commitment level. It's a little bit more. Whereas if you have a way of collecting emails, that's a little bit more like, Hey, you want to go on a date, let's just try this out. Let's see how we feel about it. And so this is an opportunity for you to nurture relationships, to build rapport, authority. All of those things can be done through email marketing. So like I said, lots of benefits come with email marketing. Um, so let's break this down a little bit more and get into it. There are different types of email marketing for there's, I mean, there's many different types, but the types that I want to focus on today is the sales email and then the nurture email and really how you decide who gets what email comes down to understanding your goals. So if you are wanting to retain current clients, then a nurture email is the best email to be sent out to them. If you are wanting to gain new clients and nurture that relationship with with new prospects, then you're going to want to start with the sales email.

Heather: [00:06:51] And and typically how it works is the sales email has 5 to 6 emails that go out and we've got a blog post on it. I will share the link in in our show notes for that so that you can understand exactly what each one of those sales emails should contain in them. But some of them are an opportunity to overcome objections, a paradigm shift. You know, really when I say sales email, it's again nurturing the relationship. We're not just like, Hey, you want to buy, let's do this now. We are building a relationship, a rapport with your prospects. And it's not even till the last email that we really ask for the sale that we're like, Now's the time. You know, let's get the commitment. The nice thing about the sales email series is typically if someone does not. If they continue through the 5 to 6 emails and they haven't booked an appointment yet, then you would bring them over to your nurture email. Your nurture emails are more to educate. They bring a lot of authority in and it's again, you can continue warming that relationship if they're a prospect or. Bringing value to current clients. And that's where that comes in. And as far as how often those are sent out, that's really based on who you're understanding, your client and your goals. If you are wanting to if you're wanting to, the sales emails go out pretty quick, pretty within 2 to 3 days.

Heather: [00:08:38] Some will be like once a week. That would be the max time length in between emails that I would suggest. Nurture emails can be anywhere from once a week, two weeks to once a month. And and the nurture emails like are not only for nurturing the relationship, but they're also to remind people that you still exist. And that's where it's great for your prospects. Because if they are, we're on the fence about working with you and then they receive your 5 or 6 emails, sales emails and then they you drop them, they just go about their life and they forget about you. But having these nurture emails will continue that relationship. It will continue to bring value to them. And and I'm sure you guys understand this any time you bring value to someone, especially when it's of a free value, they're going to love you. They're if it's if it's great value, they're going to even if they don't become your client, they may tell someone about you. So that's the great news is is value creates a relationship. They rely on you for information. After a while, they're like, well, you got to go and see this person. They're amazing. You should you should join their email list or or, you know, if they talk to someone and they're like, Yeah, I'm really struggling with this problem. Just they'll be like, Oh my gosh.

Heather: [00:10:06] So and so I received their emails and it's it's great information. Just go book an appointment with them. So it really does create. Um, it's a great way of marketing and, and it's pretty low risk in that sense. As far as investment, as far as, um, you know, time that you have to continuously put in it. Sometimes I think people think email marketing are like so overwhelmed I can't do it. But it's, it's really, it doesn't have to be especially if you're repurposing content in your nurture campaign or your nurture emails. Like it doesn't have to be this thing, this big thing. So how do we get started with email marketing? Well, there's a couple different things. You know, first off, what I said before, understand your goals. What is the goal of your email marketing? Are you trying to gain new clients? Are you trying to retain clients? Once you have those goals set, then you can you can move on from there. The next step really is is deciding on some kind of email marketing software, some kind of platform that you want to use. There's there's a variety of different ones. Some of the ones that that I tell clients about are mailerlite, constant contact, active campaigns, MailChimp, those are some of just a handful, or you can use a CRM. So if you have a sales tool like HubSpot, you can use them for your email marketing as well.

Heather: [00:11:42] Um, so again, picking the tool that you want to use this tool is going to be a way to collect and store emails. It's also going to be a way to send emails and my favorite automate. So you're not going in there and like sending an email every week? Nope. The beauty, especially of the sales emails, is that you can go in and write 5 to 6 emails, get them all set up and then they are automated. They go out every single time someone signs up for your emails, they just go, you know, and you tell it how often to go out. So it's like, okay, I want it to go out every three days. Does it for you and you and and it's marketing for you while you sleep. I mean, people could be like signing up at 2 a.m. and you're sleeping your cozy little bed and there's no there's no work involved. Once you get it set up, I do suggest that you go in and about every six months or so that you review all the content, make sure it's up to date, make sure it's still applies to your ideal clients. Also, you know, like if you feel like you're not getting the the results that you want, maybe you need to adjust something. Maybe you've learned something, something that's of greater value to your ideal clients and that, you know, so six months you go in and you review it, but not a lot of work.

Heather: [00:13:13] Same thing with your nurture emails. Nurture emails can be anywhere from 26 to or 12, 12, 26 or 52 emails. And it really that that's based on feedback. It's based on understanding, finding your your ideal client on deciding how often you want to send them because you don't want to feel spammy. Right? You want to send them. Great. And valuable stuff. Valuable stuff that's that they're going to want to continue to read, that's going to to in some way benefit their life. So, um, and again, those nurture emails, you can write them once, review them every six months or you decide that you're going to write for a month or however many a month. So and then you just go back to it every so often and you review them and they are set up ready for you. This is, I mean, great. And it doesn't have to be new content. It doesn't have to be. You go and take posts that worked on social media. You go take content from a blog and all of a sudden you will be surprised at how quickly you can create nurture emails. Nurture emails aren't that long. They they literally could be two paragraphs. So it doesn't have to be that long to create value in someone's life. Um, so we, we've got the email marketing software set up.

Heather: [00:14:50] You're creating, you create something of value to get people to sign up. So that's, that's really the first step before you create the emails is you got to get people to sign up for your email list. What? So that's where the lead generator comes in, creating something. It can be a five minute video. It can be. You know, some kind of pdf could be a journal, like something for mindfulness. I mean, just understand your ideal client, sit down, brainstorm a bunch of different things that you think that would be valuable to them. Um, one of the things I say is what are the questions you get asked the most? Not about your business, like the day to day operations, like what time you're open, Do you offer telehealth, whatever? No. But what are the questions about the services you provide that you get asked the most and then create a lead generator about it? Um, so that is, is kind of the gateway into your email marketing. That's what's going to get people to sign up for that, create a lead generator value and then nurture these relationships. So, um. We've got that done. We've got the email, and then just make a plan like what you want your emails to look like, what you want to have in your emails. We've kind of gone through that a little bit. How many emails you want, the frequency of the emails, all of that.

Heather: [00:16:23] So the four steps understand your goals, set up an email marketing software, create something of value, a lead generator that are going to get people to actually sign up and then make a plan for your sales campaign and your nurture campaign. If I was going to pick which one I would start with first. Again, it's based on your goals. You know, if you're like wait listed for six months, maybe, maybe it's not about the sales email list. Maybe it's more about creating a nurture email campaign for your current clients. Um, but on the other side and that thing, the beauty of it is, is if you don't have one done right away, you can still have people signing up for something. Just make sure that they're receiving emails, communication from you in some way from the moment that they sign up for that email list. Okay, guys. So that is email Marketing 101. I hope that it helps you to feel excited about it because I mean, again, the return on investment can be great, the results can be amazing and it can be a huge benefit for your marketing and for your business, your practice. Um, if you want to know how to get people on your wait list. Create email marketing if you want to. If you want to have a wait list. Email marketing. If you want to send out some new offerings, some new service, let's say that you are now providing some additional service that you hadn't done before.

Heather: [00:18:02] Guess how you get the news out? Email marketing. This is direct access to your clients, your prospects, everyone. So. And even if you're doing something cool in office, email marketing, right? Okay, so here's the challenge for today. Today I want you to. Write down a list of goals. What do you hope to accomplish in email marketing? And then look for some kind of email marketing software. I've given you four different options. You can pick one of those, but look which one fits. Some of them will have introductory they're free until you have x amount of people signed up for your email list or you're sending out, you know, X amount of emails, a certain number. So do your research. Figure out which one works best for you and your needs. And then. Get going on it because it will be it'll be very rewarding to see it, to see this kind of flourish and blossom from there. So. Okay, guys, this is another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. I am so excited for you guys to start email marketing and happy marketing y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Barry: [00:00:55] So good to be here. Heather. Thanks for inviting me.

Heather: [00:00:58] Yeah, I am. I was actually really excited. It's always a great conversation with you, Barry, so I'm excited for today's conversation and then just, you know, helping our listeners to to maybe take some, you know, little tidbits from this conversation we have and, and apply it to their own businesses. So let's start off really talking let's talk about, you know, kind of your experience in counseling, how you got started and then how you started your business to.

Barry: [00:01:27] Yeah. Well, gosh, this is a topic I could talk all day about. We have, in fact, talked about counseling so much. That's how we got here. Um, so I have been married for almost 24 years. Next month. Uh, we got. Thank you very much. We got married super young, 19 years old. We were babies. Um, and, you know, marriage, as we're all very aware, is difficult at times. It's awesome. It's wonderful. And there's so much to learn. About ten years into my marriage, I realized that there was a lot that I didn't know. There was a lot that wasn't going well. And so my wife and I ended up in counseling and the experience was super life changing for me. And I kind of came out of that therapy experience like thinking if I could, you know, give my life to helping other couples in their relationships, that that's something I would totally be open to. Um, and couldn't let go of the thoughts. So I went back to school. I got my degree in marriage and family therapy. And so that's what I specifically do. I work with couples, especially couples, in kind of extreme distress or crisis. And my business is blue sky intensive therapy. So we do a type of therapy called intensive therapy, which is not the typical hour a week therapy. It's kind of like a therapy a day at a time or a week at a time, just depending on what people need.

Heather: [00:02:59] Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that I love about your story, Barry, is that you actually didn't really want to go to counseling, right? You were.

Barry: [00:03:07] Not.

Heather: [00:03:08] You were like, being dragged by your. I think there was some claw marks on the wall as you were going in.

Barry: [00:03:14] You would love my wife if she was here. You would love her because she's so smart. She would say, I think we need to go get counseling, Barry. And I'd say, No, I think we're fine. And she'd say, But there's so many things we couldn't talk about. And I'd say, That's fine. I think it's actually normal. A lot of couples can't talk about things. And she eventually said, you know, Well, I'm going to go to counseling. Will you at least sit in the room? And I said, Well, of course, if that's what good husbands do, I will do that and you know the rest of the story.

Heather: [00:03:42] Yeah, definitely so. And I love that you took something from your life and then created a career out of it just because you realized what an impact and it made for your marriage and how that could impact others, too. I mean, because I agree, marriage is hard. I'll be 25 years in September. Hey, congrats. Yeah, we're Man, it's been a second. Yeah but but yeah. So I definitely agree that marriage can be a challenge and there are some ups and downs, hills and valleys and there's periods of, you know. Our moments. Even there, my favorite person in the moments you're like, Yeah, I don't know about that person so much.

Barry: [00:04:25] And there's some times where we need help. We don't know what to do, we don't know how to fix something. And so needing needing help is very normal. And having the guts to ask for help is a big deal.

Heather: [00:04:39] So yeah, what I love about. Oh, sorry, what were you going to say?

Barry: [00:04:43] Just feel lucky when people reach out and ask for help. I just feel very lucky to to be asked. It's a it's a big honor. Yeah.

Heather: [00:04:52] And so how long has blue sky intensive therapy been in business?

Barry: [00:04:58] So I started in the middle of Covid. So 20, 20 ish, you know, 2019, 2020. So in the therapy world where I live, um. When Covid hit and everybody was locked down. Um, the need for counseling services exploded. And so quickly, all of us counselors went from no waiting lists or small waiting lists to long waiting lists and months of like not being able to get people in. So in the middle of Covid, I had such a long waiting list and more and more people reaching out. And so I had a good friend of mine who did intensive therapy for individuals. He would work with a client for three days at a time, and they would do trauma recovery therapy. And so I talked to him about it and I said, you know, I would love to figure out how to do something like that for couples. And so I my myself and with his help, we developed a program that I created to be able to work with couples, and I would begin to work with them either for a day just so they could find some relief and stabilization while they wait to get into another counselor. Or for the couples that were really bad in crisis, we developed a week long program that couples could come to, and it's kind of like the E.R. or ICU experience in the medical field. They come in their relationship. You know, it's it's dying. And so we work to stabilize it. We work to give it a chance to live and thrive again.

Heather: [00:06:41] Yeah, definitely. I think that's pretty amazing what you guys offer. And I love the idea that you you know, it's kind of like an E.R., an ICU, um, where they come in to to get that immediate attention, that immediate help. And then from there, they can at least have some kind of plan on how to move forward or what they want to do with their marriage in the long run. So I think that's so great. Um, and I would imagine I would love to see some statistics. I'm sure they're still working on some of that. But statistics on how many couples realize there was an issue during Covid because they were stuck in the same house together.

Barry: [00:07:23] Absolutely.

Barry: [00:07:24] What seemed like manageable, like always thought about like a small cracks in Covid. Those small cracks just became extreme riffs and. Yeah. And because they're stuck in the house and they're stuck around each other. Those little riffs became really big issues.

Heather: [00:07:43] Yeah, absolutely. So. So you've been doing this for three years. Your business has been established for three years. And like you said, you do intensive couples therapy and trauma therapy. And you kind of talked a little bit about that niche and how you decided to work within that niche. Um, so let's talk a little bit more about how it how it works. Um, how do people find you? What is the process, some of those things?

Barry: [00:08:16] Yeah.

Barry: [00:08:17] Well, one of the things that I so, you know, things like Covid or things like really big kind of earth shaking experiences, they can really awaken us or there's an opportunity that lies there that can kind of awaken us to like, thinking about something that could help others, especially in the human services industry. Um, that maybe is doesn't exist or there's not too much of. So for me, you know, there the idea of intensive therapy, it's very rare. It's not in it. You can't find it in every state. For us in Idaho, from what I know, for professional counseling services, we're the only couple that offer intensive therapy in Idaho. So you'd have to travel out of Idaho to find some of these services. So Covid kind of opened my eyes to the need of people needing something soon, sooner than later, and trying to help this crisis from getting worse. And so, you know, for for people that are listening in your line of work, if there's like, um, really difficult times, those are often laden with opportunities to begin to think and consider, um, what aspects of their industry they could really silo into and drill down into and, and develop something that could be really beneficial to the industry. So specifically counseling. You know, counseling has only been around really since the 1960s. So we're in our infancy. So kind of the standard of an hour of therapy a week became kind of the standard protocol. And there's no research and there's nothing that says like that is ideal. That's what people are best impacted by. So I kind of in those moments just felt like, well, the statistics are the evidence aren't telling me that I have to stick to this thing.

Barry: [00:10:20] So if I could do whatever, what would I do? Um, and I found that I don't have to carry a whole caseload of clients if I'm just seeing a couple a day at a time just to get them stable so they can get in with their counselor that they're on their waiting list for. So I began to do that, letting go of my hourly weekly clientele, making space a day at a time to help couples. And I started. And recognizing like, wow, a day with a couple, we can accomplish months of work in a day. And they felt instant relief after a day of that for the most part. And and then, you know, I started encountering couples that needed even more. They were even more in extreme crisis. Hence the need for developing kind of a week long protocol or program to help them. So it was really the the situation of Covid and what was driving kind of business per se, that really helped me kind of begin to open my mind to consider what we could do to help more people, to really help what was going on, to get people help sooner. And, you know, the the kind of the slogan that we came up with for my business is get better faster, because that's what it all comes down to. I hate to see people in suffering. And so if there's a way we can help them sooner and get them feeling better sooner, I would love to give my life and time to that.

Heather: [00:11:45] Yeah, think that's so great. So wonderful. And I love that you talk about the benefit that as you have done it, as you've niched down it has allowed you to become more efficient and to just to do your job better, to see results faster, to do some of those, you know, those benefits you really see by doing one thing instead of, you know, branching out to every single thing or having a certificate or education and everything, it's like by focusing in you're able to to better serve. And one of the things also is that it allows you to be very specific in the kind of people you want to work with, too. So what is kind of your process in deciding who you work with and who you don't work with? Because that's one of the big parts of having a niche.

Barry: [00:12:38] Yes, correct. You're so right. You have to say no to a lot of good in order to to be able to be great. So saying no to a lot of those opportunities that you could do and just saying yes to the one thing that you really are feeling called to or dedicated to or really feeling strongly about. That was a definite a moment. I can remember the moment where I realized like, I'm going to have to say no to a lot in order to say yes to this one thing. And so that's something that's a real pivotal moment that everyone has to go through to get to these places to niche down. So in the process of developing this, I knew that there are going to be some cases that a day is not going to be valuable for. And so looking at and using the the protocols that my the therapy that I already do and I'm just doing the normal, you know, hourly weekly therapy that a lot of people get, I'm just using it in intensive doses. So I'm using the same criteria that we do in regular therapy to know if candidates are couples are a good candidate for this program. So, um, I'm looking to see if there's, you know, diagnoses that couples are coming in with, if they, you know, if I'm the 10th counselor that they've seen, There's some of these things that I watch for in the consultation that help me know if if a couple is a good match for what I'm doing or not.

Barry: [00:14:14] You know, if a couple comes in and and one of the spouses is still actively engaged in an affair, like what I'm doing is not going to be great for them. Yeah. And so we so when a couple reaches out to me, we have an hour consultation. I listen to a little bit about what's going on. I try to get a sense for what the struggles are and then I tell them a little bit about what I do and we talk about if what I do would be a good fit for what they're going through. We talk about the kind of therapy that I do and use and, um, and so a lot of couples self-select, you know, they determine, yes, this is good, this would be good for us or no, this wouldn't be good for us. And then I'll also have kind of some things in my head that help me know whether this couple would be a good fit or not for the kind of therapy that I offer.

Heather: [00:15:06] Yeah, I absolutely love that you have kind of some criteria and really, if you weren't working within a niche that might be that might be difficult to come up with that criteria. But because, you know, I have one day or five days to work with this couple, these are the things that I need to see. This is where I need to see them in their marriage or in their journey in order to actually be beneficial to them. And one of the things that I absolutely love that you said is you had to say you have to say no to a lot of good things in order to really do the things that serve you and help you. And I mean, I think anyone in any in any industry that can resonate. It with, you know, and I'm in marketing and that definitely resonates with me. It's hard to say no sometimes to the the tempting things or the things that you're like, Oh, that could be kind of fun or exciting or maybe maybe I should try it. Yep. Um, what do you do to stay kind of true to yourself in that?

Barry: [00:16:06] Well, I think a lot of us councilors, we would guess a lot of my friends that are in the counseling field, they're really, um, people pleasers. So we are, um, we are we have so much empathy and so much compassion that when somebody comes along and they need some help and it's not necessarily in my niche, there's definitely things inside that say, Oh, you can let that go for now and help them. So surrounding myself with the right people, my business partner, my wife, um, my colleagues, you know, making sure that they are there to support me so that I have a supervisor, I talk with my supervisor about my cases and my consults so she can help me, like when I'm tempted to people, please, and to let go of my boundaries and cross them to help somebody that might not be in my niche. I have people in my corner that can help me see it and help me. Um, because I'm not the only answer. So they remind me, Hey, there's plenty of other good therapists that can be a huge help for them, so let's get them connected to them so that you can stay in your lane and keep doing what you're doing. So, you know, it's not that I'm letting a person down or it's not that I'm disappointing them. I'm actually doing a better thing in getting them to connected to somebody who's great at what they do and that can help them best.

Heather: [00:17:29] Yeah, and I love that. And that's one of the things I was going to say. I'm sure that having some kind of. You know, list of people who can help with this circumstance or that circumstance or who are professionals who specialize in those areas is helpful for you as well. Just so that if you are tempted, you know, to. Yes. I mean, I your counselor, it's not just that your people pleasers that like you said, but it's that you want to help everyone that's why you went into the profession and it is very noble and honorable. But you also have to recognize that you might not be the best person for that. Um, you know, you might not be the best counselor to help that person.

Barry: [00:18:09] Yeah, I think great counselors have great referral lists, like they have people they're connected to that are great at what they do. And so when people come along needing help, we know what we're great at and we can also refer them to somebody who's great at whatever they need.

Heather: [00:18:26] Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's such a great little. I'm going to like put that on the wall or something like, thank you for that. That was just very insightful. Um, Forbes actually says a focus business concept has numerous benefits, including simple and streamlined operations and less direct competition, thus allowing you to be a big fish in a small pond. A clear focus means you can focus your audience targeting, targeting, strategy, defining and excelling with a special skill set and knowledge in a particular industry allows you to identify, claim and build on your market expertise. And I love that. It just talks about so many benefits that you're able to to really show how you're different. This is who we are. This is what we do. This is the only thing that we do. So there's less direct competition. You can create very streamlined operations. You're not having to create a process for that and a process for this. And, you know, filling spread thin and and you really are able to focus on that one target audience, which again, benefits them and it benefits you from a marketing standpoint because instead of speaking to a blurred crowd or the masses you are speaking to, you know, the Millers or whatever, whatever couple. So you're speaking to very specific couples.

Barry: [00:19:57] Yeah, I, I, I'm a hunter. I'm from the Idaho Northwest area where we hunt and fish a lot. It's a concept that's like using a shotgun versus using a rifle, a shotgun where we're like shooting from the hip. We're hoping to like hit something, throwing it out there versus a rifle, which we know what we're shooting for. We know we're aiming at and we know how to hit the target. So, yes, absolutely. And might I just plug for just a minute that if you're struggling to find clarity in that for your business, somebody like Heather, who's wonderful at asking questions and helping you find clarity, which she did with me as we put together our my website, it was great because it helped me find clarity on even more who is my target, how do I reach them? And it was just incredibly helpful.

Heather: [00:20:54] Oh, well, thank you so much. I'm glad it helped and I love that. Just kind of working with clients to to find that clarity because again, it's very you haven't target, you haven't aim, you know, what you're shooting for and can move forward. And that actually helps me or um, you know, kind of from a marketing standpoint, uh, you know, obviously having a very clear and defined message or I guess first off, having a very clear and defined audience helps you to create the clear and defined message that's going to resonate with them. It's something very specific. They're going to be like, Oh, like he's talking to me. How did he know? Yeah, you know, that's that's where it gets exciting. Is that. Go ahead. I would say is that they they were like, he gets me.

Barry: [00:21:47] Yeah they feel seen by you. They feel heard by you. And you know, if you're listening and you want to start a business or you are a business owner and you're like struggling to find that clarity, I'm just want to advocate one more time because I didn't have a ton of clarity. I knew kind of in general who I wanted to reach and how I wanted to go about it. But people like Heather can help you clarify, find clarity on knowing what the audience really is, who the audience really is, and how to market them and speak to them in really, really crystal clear terms and and putting the message on the bottom shelf for them. So I would just say, listen, you don't have to know how to. Do it all. People like Heather are wonderful at coming alongside and helping you with that.

Heather: [00:22:38] Yeah, and we definitely had did some great work together where there was a lot of aha moments for both of us. Yes, because it's, you know, just having a conversation, figuring things out. So I appreciate that, that, uh, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Um, HubSpot says by focusing on a small audience, you can use your resources to find customers who align with your product. These people need your product the most and are most likely to convert. And that's one of the big ideas, too, is that instead of. Wasting money on Google ads that just go out to anyone within this region or whatever. And I'm not saying Google ads are a waste, but if you're not using if you don't know who you want to, you know, target, if you don't know what exactly you want to say, then yeah, it can be wasteful. You can be literally throwing money out the window. Um, so definitely making sure that you know, who you're talking to is going to help both with your marketing and your advertising budget so that you're using money efficiently, you're marketing, you know, budget efficiently and really can target those that are interested and need your services the most.

Barry: [00:23:55] Yeah.

Heather: [00:23:55] So I think the big idea is that by doing that, by creating a niche, you're better able to help. People versus just kind of like, Yeah, I did good. I helped someone. Like there's I don't know. Do you feel that way? You're like, I absolutely was able to help this couple more than I would have been had I just been doing, you know, general counseling or something like that.

Barry: [00:24:20] Yeah, absolutely. Like in the counseling field, for example. So, you know. Counseling. The field of counseling is growing leaps and bounds. Mean 20. Think the recent statistic was it's growing 20 some percent a year. Mean we have people coming into the counseling field in huge numbers. So you have like 100% of these counselors. Well, how many of the counselors are actually doing couples therapy? Well, if you look at the statistics, you know, maybe 25%, 1 in 4 counselors will do couples counseling. So already right there, I'm down to a small group of counselors in the field that are working with couples. And then out of that, if you look at, well, how many of them will work with a couple more than an hour a week? Oh, then that number drops dramatically to maybe single digits of how many how many counselors would actually work with a couple for longer than an hour a week. So now I've put myself in the single digits in the counseling field. So when a couple comes along and they know, Oh, we're in trouble and we know we need more than an hour a week, who they go looking for is a very select few.

Barry: [00:25:27] So I am a name in a very select few, and I'm sure that the counseling field is just one example of what that's like in other people's industries, where there are different niches that make your name one of a few that people will reach out to. And by doing this and being open and this is where I just want to say like this does entail risk. I mean, letting go of my weekly client load to be able to believe that a couple will see me for a day. That was a risk that you have to step out in faith in some of these ways. But the payoff is so great. I would just encourage anyone who's listening take the risk, step out in faith because these risks really have a huge payoff, not just from like better, you know, being more successful in business, but like the satisfaction and the fulfillment that comes personally when you take a risk and you step out in faith and step into this niche. I can't. I can't tell you how rich the satisfaction and fulfillment is when you do that.

Heather: [00:26:32] Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Because it definitely there's something to be said when you niche down, you know, all of a sudden you're doing something that you're very passionate about. That's kind of why I went from just general marketing to niching down to working with therapy, you know, those within therapy industry or allied health professionals because. That was that was the people that I loved to work with. You know, all it takes is one. And all of a sudden you're like, ooh, this is this is fun. This is what lights me up in the morning. And when you are excited about your work, your clients benefit from it.

Barry: [00:27:08] Absolutely.

Heather: [00:27:10] And so that's a huge benefit for them as well because you're just going to be excited to be there, excited to help them, excited to, you know, really give everything to help those who are, you know, your clients well.

Barry: [00:27:25] And I can imagine for You mean now you just have to become an expert in the therapy world marketing instead of like becoming an expert in whoever comes your way and their world like that makes your life so much easier because you now just have to be focused on this one area instead of every area, which I have to have to think that's a game changer for you.

Barry: [00:27:50] Absolutely.

Heather: [00:27:51] It does make a big a big difference. And so I really like what you said about, you know, you've got to be brave. You got to step out in faith. Um, I actually just did a social media post video that said kind of that same thing where it was like. Live on, like outside of your comfort zone? Just right outside of it, just on the outlining, you know, just kind of push out that comfort zone more and more because the more you push out of the comfort, the more you're going to have those benefits, the more you're going to build the life you want, the more you're going to, you know, do work that you're passionate about, all those things. And, um, so I totally agree with you is to live your life just outside of comfort.

Barry: [00:28:35] So good.

Heather: [00:28:36] Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, guys, um, if you have, I'm going to just make a little plug for. For Barry, since he was so nice about, you know, plug in my business. But, um, if you have clients who are in need or prospects that, you know, if you've got a waitlist and need immediate help. Within their marriage and this could be a beneficial to them. Please reach out to Barry at Blue Sky Intensive Therapy. He is amazing at what he does and in helping his clients. So anything else you want to add today, Barry?

Barry: [00:29:13] Thank you so much for letting me come. I like I said, I love talking about this stuff. So another chance, another opportunity to talk about how we help the world we live in more and how do we help it faster and better. I'm just thankful people like you that are willing to have these conversations and make space and time for this. And thanks for letting me be a part of it.

Heather: [00:29:34] Yeah, well, thank you very much for being on the episode on this episode. And I think there's a lot of amazing tidbits and, and think food for thought for people on this episode that, you know, if they're kind of teetering on should I niche down, should I not, this may be the thing that that helps them make that decision, especially when you point out not just the pros, but that there is risk to it. But are you willing to take that risk? Is the risk worth it? You know, um, all of those things to to get to that next step. So.

Barry: [00:30:09] It's a good word.

Heather: [00:30:10] Yeah, definitely. Thank you guys for joining us on another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Christine: [00:01:33] Thank you, Heather. I'm excited to be on the podcast and tell you a little bit more about what we do. So why don't I start with a quick background on myself and then happy to share a little bit more about the business.

Heather: [00:01:47] Yeah, I would love for you to tell us because really your, your backstory or is really how Ming-tai came to be. So it's important to hear about, you know, just kind of your story and, and how it created Minthea Yeah.

Christine: [00:02:06] Well I so I guess a quick background on me. I've been interested in mental health for a really long time. Um, I unfortunately went to a high school with a lot of mental health issues in Palo Alto, and I just saw how much it could really impact people's lives. And so I've been really passionate about mental health ever since. Uh, my background is actually in tech, so I studied computer science at Princeton and I ended up going to product management. And so I was a product manager at Google for several years before I left in 2021 to start Montaya to try to make a difference in the mental health space, because I wanted to work on something that was more personally meaningful to me and something that I wanted to build, something that I would be proud of. And really what we want to do is our whole mission at Montaya is to make high quality mental health care more accessible. And there's a lot of ways to do that. And so the specific reason we chose to be where we what we to choose to do what we do is because we wanted to see if we could find a solution that bridges tech and mental health in a way where the incentives are really aligned with providers and their clients. We wanted to sort of help both. There are obviously other solutions out there that, you know, are like really great for the client or really great for the provider, but sometimes it's not always great for both. And so that was something that's really core to what we do. We wanted to create a win win situation for both therapists and their clients. And so specifically what we do is because most therapists, a lot of therapists don't want to deal with insurance companies.

Christine: [00:03:48] It's confusing. And, you know, there's some they don't always pay the best. And so a lot of therapists want to be able to just, you know, do their work and help their clients without having to deal with any of the billing stuff and insurance companies. And therefore, a lot of therapists are private pay. And so sort of what we were thinking about was, well, given that a lot of therapists don't want to take insurance, how can we actually try to bridge the gap so that even if you don't take insurance, we're able to still make therapy a little bit more accessible for your clients. And this is sort of where out-of-network benefits come in. A lot of people don't realize that they have what's called out-of-network benefits with their insurance, where you can save up to 80% on therapy, you can get reimbursed up to 80% of your money back on a therapy session, even if your therapist is private pay. And so because there's not this there's a lack of education around this most other, you know, medical professionals or just people in medicine, a lot of doctors do take insurance. People aren't educated on the benefits of out-of-network benefits that they can use to get reimbursed for therapy. And with that, a lot of times the cost ends up being much closer to a copay for a client. And so what we have is this, you know, awesome solution where we help people understand and utilize their out-of-network benefits so that therapists can attract more private pay clients because their clients are saving money on therapy. And so it's a win win for both.

Heather: [00:05:21] Yeah, I love this so much. One of the things that I mean, there's just so many things to love about it. Um. You know, I really feel like this is a win win, like you say, because, you know, the insurance system is broken. Let's face it, I'm going to be political for half a second. The insurance system is broken. Okay. I said it. No matter what side of the line. We I think a lot of people were coming to this realization. There are some problems in our health care system and I get y while y sorry, um. Insurance or why therapists don't want to work with insurance. It's a nightmare. I mean, not only that, who has time to work with it and then fight with insurance companies. And then you fight with them only to receive a small portion of what you know you need to be paid to run a practice. And then on the other side of the coin, you know, there's clients who are really struggling. They know they they need help, but they're limited in their options because if they just can't afford it, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. Right. There's just that's all there is to it. And so I love that you've really, like you said, bridge this gap between them and taken out, you know, working with the actual insurance company. So one of the things that when we were talking beforehand that you talked about is how you kind of came up with this idea. And I love that you really spent the time to research and look into it beforehand. Can you talk more about that?

Christine: [00:07:00] Yeah, that is a really good question. So coming from someone with a tech background, I'm aware that I didn't want to be one of those people that was like, let me just throw tech at sort of these problems and just, you know, presume that I understand everything in this space. And so I really wanted to do my research, and I ended up talking to, I think, over 100 mental health providers just to get their perspective, because I have heard that a lot of times providers are not being accounted for as much in some of these tech solutions that are being built out. And so I really wanted to take my time to understand like what are their pain points, What can we build out that can accommodate both the provider and make their lives easier, but also the client? And and that is really key to sort of what how we sort of created Montoya And we just really wanted to meet therapists where they are and not, you know, create a situation where it's like, oh, let's help you make all these crazy changes to your practice.

Christine: [00:08:01] In order to do X, Y, Z, You don't. It's super simple. All you have to do is just confirm a session has happened and we can automatically submit claims for clients. We automatically check benefits for them as well. And so you can kind of think of us as almost this sort of like automated biller that you have. That's not it's not, but it's a much more lightweight solution. You don't have to hire anyone. A lot of therapists. What's unique about therapists is that a lot of therapists are in private practice and there's not many other industries where everyone's running their own business. Like everyone is an entrepreneur, everyone's a business owner, and a lot of times people are in, you know, solo practices or really small practices. And so we sort of want to be there to help out on all the. You know, how do we basically help you? Leverage the benefits of insurance without actually having to deal with it, because we can deal with all of that. And so that's sort of where we where we want to meet you, where you are.

Heather: [00:08:58] Yeah. Really, as business owners, you know, any business really, But with a therapist, they were so many hats. If they're the solopreneur or even if they're just if they're still seeing clients and running a practice, there's a lot of hats. They were there's a lot of stuff to do. And so when they work with insurance, that's just one more. I mean, you really have to hire someone full time to deal with that if you're going to be, you know, accepting insurance, whereas private pay, you know, it has its own set of problems. And so you coming in and just being the simple solution for them. I love that you found this this pain point in running a business, a practice, and then said, well, what's the solution? How can we bring in tech to make it easier for the therapist, to make it easier for the client? And and really help everyone win.

Christine: [00:09:55] Yeah, exactly. I think that's something that we're always we're very customer centric and we even even now it's been, you know, two years since since we've started and we're still checking in constantly with our customers being like, what types of features do you want? How is your experience going? We do focus groups still with a lot of our therapists just to make sure we sort of always have. You know, have the voice of the customer as we continue to develop our product. But people love the simplicity and it's so easy. They're like, I can't believe how easy it is to use. I'm happy to share a little bit more about the product and exactly what we do, if that's helpful. But we basically have two main parts to our product. So we really think about it from a therapist's perspective of how can this fit into their practice. So the first thing that we came up with was this Instant Benefits checker. It's this little widget you can put on your website or send to any prospective clients where someone can just put in their name, date of birth and insurance member ID, and we can immediately tell you within a few seconds what your benefits are. If you can get reimbursed, how much you can get reimbursed, etcetera. And that actually has helped therapists convert a lot more clients because if people are on the fence about paying, you know, say $200 a session for private pay therapy, if they realize they can get reimbursed, let's say even 70% of the cost of the session, then your your net cost for therapy is $60. It's basically it's just a little bit more than a typical copay. And that ends up helping therapists convert a lot more clients. And so that's sort of the first.

Heather: [00:11:33] Really it's it helps to make therapy more accessible for those who really need it. And that is the big thing is that often therapists will have like, well, they'll they'll put aside so many appointments for those who have lower income or whatever. And this this really is that solution that it's like we can provide therapy to anyone, no matter what their financial situation is. And that's what I love about it, is that we need to make, you know, therapy more accessible for for those who live in just different financial circumstances.

Christine: [00:12:16] Yeah. And to your point, I think a lot of people don't realize that they have what's called these out-of-network benefits. And so there could be people that, you know, I know that a lot of therapists have sliding scale. For example, I think that's what you were sort of alluding to, where they'll reserve a certain number of spots at a lower fee for people. But imagine if you can still charge, you know, closer to your full fee and they essentially only have to pay 60 or 50 or 60 or 80 or whatever it is that your sliding scale fee would have been otherwise. And so that kind of creates a win win situation where you're getting paid, you know, as much as you feel like is fair, and then they're basically saving as much as possible on therapy. And so it's this win win situation for both. And so that's why therapists and clients are both excited about it. But, you know, obviously once it's like I have these benefits, great. How do I actually use them? What do I do? That's really the second piece of our product. We wanted to create an end to end solution where it wasn't like, okay, great. And then you just like leave them hanging. Like good luck figuring out how to deal with your insurance. So we actually do take care of all of that as well, where a therapist just has to, you know, verify that Sessions has happened and then we will automatically submit the claim after every session and take care of it and follow up. If it gets denied for whatever reason, we will fight back against the insurance companies and make sure that the client gets reimbursed, the amount that they're entitled to so that they can continue seeking the mental health care that they need.

Heather: [00:13:43] Yeah, I love that so much. And one of the things that I think has been the hardest when starting Montoya is this idea of the super bill that not a lot of people are even understand that, that there is that option that I'm like, Oh, I can get a super bill and then submit it. And I know that even at that, sometimes that can be a struggle for practice owners to create the super bills and get them ready to then submit. And so that's kind of removing that that part of the.

Christine: [00:14:16] Yeah, you're exactly right. It's essentially replacing the super bill and more we help you understand that of network benefits and we sort of catch you every point because there are people who one don't even know that they have out of network benefits and don't even know that they can get reimbursed to. Maybe they know that they can get reimbursed, but they don't know how and they just don't understand the complexities of insurance. Three Maybe they understand all that and the therapist gives them a super bill, but then it gets rejected or they forget to submit it. And it's just this overhead that you have to remember to do within a certain period of time. Because if you submit it too late, insurance companies are not going to accept it. And so it's best to do it as soon as possible. But obviously there's already a lot on everyone's plate. You're going to therapy presumably to, you know, seek some help for mental health care. And on top of that, you have to like figure out insurance stuff. And the worst is when claims get denied. Like sometimes you submit it, you've like super bills can be a little manual sometimes. And so sometimes there's not exactly the right information that your particular insurance company wants. It gets rejected. And then now you have to involve as a client, you have to involve your therapist and be like, Hey, it got rejected. Like, why did it get rejected? And then the therapist is like, Well, I don't know, Like, I'm not an insurance expert. And then you're like spending hours, both of them trying to like, talk to the insurance company on the phone, trying to resubmit it. And so just having we just wanted to help people avoid the whole headache because if anyone's ever tried dealing with insurance, like, you know, you're being put on hold.

Heather: [00:15:43] We've all been on hold for hours with insurance companies. You're like, just schedule took out a whole half a day to fight with my insurance company on whatever or and like you said, then they're having to kind of go back and touch base with their therapist, which the therapist is like, Wait, I didn't want to deal with insurance companies. And now all of a sudden I'm having to deal with an insurance company. So having you guys, you know, take point on all of that is is amazing for clients and practice owners.

Christine: [00:16:11] Yeah. Yeah. It's I think people love it. It's it's an automated solution that we built out. It's super simple. It literally takes like three seconds to do. It's so little time. I think people are like, didn't like, why doesn't this, why hasn't this existed before? Like, how does this work? And a lot of it I won't get into the details, but a lot of it is just kind of the tech that we've built out behind the scenes of being able to figure out a way to communicate with insurance companies and send all the information in whatever format that they request.

Heather: [00:16:42] What are some of the results that your clients have experienced as a result of using Mintia?

Christine: [00:16:49] Yeah, that's a really good question. We've had I mean, we've helped clients get the end clients get thousands of dollars back on therapy per year. I think we help someone get over $10,000 back. They just want a lot of therapy sessions and we're able to get reimbursed a ton. And then on the therapist side, we have heard this help people, you know, fill up their practice more and just like take the burden off of them from having to explain to their clients. And it's great because now you get to be, I think, a lot of therapists. You want to help people. And I think a lot of therapists, they don't want to deal with insurance because of all the headache of that. But they also are like, well, I don't I want to make, you know, a living wage that makes sense for me financially. But also I don't want my rates to be too high and inaccessible to people. Like I don't want to only work with people who can afford to pay like 200 or 250 every single week, right? Like you want to work with all types of of people regardless of their financial situation. An and so I think this is this has been not only helpful from a, you know, a business building perspective but in feeling like you can be part of making mental health care more accessible by essentially helping using ming-tai to sort of bridge the gap a little bit between your full fee and the net cost that the patient or the client ends up needing to pay.

Heather: [00:18:10] Yeah. Yeah. Have you had any clients who have therapists? By by clients, I mean therapists who have asked like, well, how do I market this? How do I present this to? Because it's pretty clear, you know, a lot of therapists, when we create marketing, you know, we'll always talk about, okay, well, they're private paid practice. That's somewhere on the website, whether we have a whole page on the financial aspect of it. I've also seen a lot of where a lot of therapists who are private pay will go into the details of the benefits to both the therapist and the client as to being private pay. One of the benefits obviously being that they don't have to like itemize and like put like, you know, the right code in. It's just like, you know, here's therapy. Um, so anyways, so from a marketing standpoint, how do they talk to their clients about this?

Christine: [00:19:02] Yeah. So we have a few ways that we help with that. Obviously, we're here to support. We're not here to dictate how you market to your clients, but. One thing is that a lot of therapists do is because we have this essentially instant benefits checker they can put on their website, they usually put it and it's super easy if you use a website builder, if you have someone who helps you with your website, you just copy and paste something in and it takes like 30s to do. And we have this widget that you can put on your website in your rates or fees and insurance section of the website. A lot of therapists have something about their fees and they usually say, Here's my price, etcetera. And so right underneath that it's like, Hey, you might actually be able to, you know, use this calculator to check if you have these benefits and you might be able to actually get a reduced price on therapy or get reimbursed for my services. And so that is a big way to market themselves and distinguish themselves from other therapists who aren't offering that service for their clients. And I know that a lot of therapists also are adding into their paperwork or into their whether it's their email signature or in the initial consult call or whatever. When a client contacts them and when they ask them inevitably, like, what are your fees? Et cetera. They basically have a little blurb. We have a little blurb that you can copy and paste and say, Hey, this is my fee. But if you use this benefits checker and put in your information, you might be able to get reimbursed. And so those are kind of the different ways that therapists can market themselves.

Heather: [00:20:32] I like that. Yeah, because you have to be careful because you don't want them to all of a sudden be like, Oh, well, they they say they're private pay, but then they accept insurance and it's like, no, we don't accept insurance, but we have a way of facilitating a reimbursement for you. Exactly. So you have to, you know, make sure you position it in a clear way so that it makes sense that it's like, no, why we're still private pay. You may be able to receive reimbursements on that. So I like that you kind of offer that as is, Hey, this is how you can position it on your site or even in your email or talking with, you know, prospective clients.

Christine: [00:21:08] Yeah, We even have in addition to that, if you don't have a website or in addition to your website, we also give you a personalized link with your own with your own benefits checker that you can put on any of your marketing profile. So, for example, I know a lot of people are on psychology today. There's like a section that's like, What insurance do you accept? And instead of being like, nothing, you can put like, Hey, I don't accept insurance, but basically here, use this benefits checker and see if you might have these benefits. And I'll I'll help you basically make sure that you get the reimbursement that you deserve.

Heather: [00:21:40] Yeah, I love that. Okay. So what are some things that they can do to learn more about Mintia and and this product and this or this service? Um, how can they get started if they're curious and learning more?

Christine: [00:21:58] Well, you can go to our website. It's pretty simple. Menti.com It's m e n t a y a.com to learn more. And then if you sign up, we have a special we have a special offer for all the podcast listeners and anyone who hears about this through you. And it's if you sign up, you can just use the promo code TMS for therapy marketing solutions. So you put in TMS and you'll get a free 30 days of our benefits checker that you can just try out for free and be able to just try it out. Risk free. It's 30 days. You can cancel any time. And we just wanted to give an opportunity for people to just try it out and see for themselves.

Heather: [00:22:44] Yeah, yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for providing that because so often you see where you're like, Well, that looks cool, but I don't really understand exactly how it works. And this is an opportunity for them to really play around with it and see how easy and simple it is and then to actually maybe use it with a client or two and get an idea of how easy it is and decide if it's a good fit for their practice.

Christine: [00:23:11] Exactly. We just want people to be able to we normally don't do free trials, but for for listeners of this podcast, we are happy to give a free trial just so for 30 days. That's enough time. You can run your own insurance information through, you can ask your friends, you can run a few clients and go through and just see what it's like and see if it ends up being super useful for your practice.

Heather: [00:23:30] Yeah. So one last question that I have for you. What insurance companies do you typically work with just so that they, they know, you know, like, um, if they have clients that typically have X insurance or whatever, that that will help them to decide if it's a good fit for them.

Christine: [00:23:50] Yeah. We work with all the major insurance companies and more so just to name a few. We work with Aetna, you know, different Blue Cross Blue Shield. I'm in California. We work with like Anthem Blue Cross and California Blue Shield. But across the nation we are nationwide. We work with United Healthcare, Cigna and a bunch of other, you know, insurance. Companies that I'm not going to list right now because there's such a long list, but all the major ones. And if you don't if for whatever reason, there's an insurance company that you don't see on the list, we have basically this form you can fill out and we'll manually check your insurance benefits and get back to you within a business day and tell people their benefits. And also in terms of submitting claims, if it's not on the list, we are happy to add it in. And we generally have a pretty quick turnaround around adding insurance companies in the list.

Heather: [00:24:40] Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Christine. It has been a pleasure talking with you today. And like I said, when Maria, who works with Christine, contacted me about this, I was like, oh my gosh, where is this been like, this is such a great idea. And I just love how you took from your own experience and your own passion and helping, you know, people have access to mental health care and said, you know, in my business as I work in the tech industry, how can I help more people have access to health care and how can I help mental health professionals be, you know, be able to provide more access? So I love that you took from your experience and built something that can help everyone to find help and to also run their businesses more efficiently.

Christine: [00:25:34] Yeah, that's that's our goal.

Heather: [00:25:37] Yes. So thank you so much. You guys tune in next week for another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing, y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Heather: [00:02:01] If something happens to that platform, if by chance you, you know, for some reason you lose your reputation on there or whatever, whatever it is, those email, those people who are following you are not your followers. You can't take them wherever. You can't have them, you know, like go along with your business, but your email list will always be yours. Um, so no one can take your email list away. You have it when you want. It's a great tool for nurturing relationships because really, that's what it's about, right? Um, you know, I always say that your call to action button on your website is about getting people to take that action, but your lead generator is about nurturing relationships. And so that's really the goal in lead generation, is to further nurture the relationship, to build trust and authority and to make them feel comfortable with you. Especially with allied health professionals, it is very important that people feel comfortable when they feel comfortable in your business and in particular in you. They're going to want to work with you. So, um. To break it down as far as what is lead generation, it's very simple. Lead generation is some kind of valuable content, so you create something valuable to your ideal clients in exchange for their email. In the most simplest terms, that's what it is. I like what Neil Patel says. He is kind of a a big name in the marketing world and he says lead generation is the process of attracting and converting qualified leads into customers by creating and sharing valuable content that addresses their needs and pain points.

Heather: [00:04:07] I really like that he mentions that you're addressing their needs and pain points because when we talk about creating something of value, that's that's what's valuable to them. Um, a lead generator has no monetary value in the sense that it doesn't bring them, you know, greater money or whatever. I mean, I guess some lead generators and other industries could. But the real, the real goal of it is to, is to address their, their needs and their pain points. And I don't know if you've listened to any of my other podcasts, you will know there is a common theme when whenever we are writing or creating content or any of your marketing, it is about addressing your ideal clients pain point, their needs and first off, you know, identifying what their pain point or needs are, but then addressing them. That's what your business is about. It is about how you help them. So what are the different types of lead generators? Well, we could go on forever on the different types of lead generators. There are so many types of lead generators. There's, um. I mean, you could just continue. Yeah. Anything could be a lead generator. Really, If you really think about it. Anything for. Retail businesses. Lead generators are often 10% off your first purchase.

Heather: [00:05:48] You know, how many times have you guys filled out on a website? Take 10% off your first purchase and all you have to do is provide your email. Well, guess what? That opens up the door for them to continue to tell you about their the sales and the deals that they have. Same idea. We're obviously not giving 10% off your first purchase or um, or something like that. But for someone who's buying something in the in retail, 10% off is a value and that's why that works. Um, so we need to make sure that it is valuable. So my favorite types of lead generators and this is based on what is popular at in, you know what is popular, what what is, what is attractive to people right now. So quizzes are the big one. Um, people love quizzes if you can do like. You know, a ten question quiz that will help them to identify their personality. I mean, how many times have we done that? How many times have you guys done a personality quiz or you've done a like, I think we all know what house we come from, right? The Hogwarts House and Gryffindor here. Thank you. So I think every single one of us has done at least one Harry Potter quiz. Um, you know, you've done it, but so it I'm proving the point that quizzes. We love them. We love answering questions. So what can be valuable to your ideal client in the sense of what kind of quiz? Um, this what I suggest in figuring this out is literally taking 15 minutes and just doing a brain dump, just getting a piece of paper and just start writing and get creative, get crazy, get.

Heather: [00:07:50] Because sometimes the crazy ideas are the really good ones. Um, because they're out of the box and no one else has thought about them. So you know, seven steps to to identify. Um, your parenting style. That could be something cool. Or seven questions to identify your parenting style. Uh. You know, for something like SLPs Does my child need speech? Could be a question and you could, you know, do things like, well, how many words does your child know by the age of, you know, whatever benchmark one, three, five. Am I an introvert or an extrovert or obviously there's varying degrees of all that, something like that. So I'm just throwing out ideas in different industries. Uh. Yeah. I mean, you could just go on forever and just think about your industry. Think about what's of interest to people. Think about the questions that people ask you. Common questions and make a quiz of it. Same thing goes for. For the next one. Checklist. People like checklist. Going back to that example, does my child need speech therapy? That could literally be like, was your child? Did your was your child able to use 15 words? Please don't like I'm not using exact numbers, but like don't want to get any emails like, oh they should be able to say 20 words at one, whatever.

Heather: [00:09:35] You know, I'm just throwing a number out, you know, create a checklist for them. And so they can be like, Yes, they did 15 words at one. They did this many words at two or sentences. They did this, They did that. So checklist, it's like a grocery list mean or a to do list. I love checklists because I like crossing things off my checklist or saying yes or no. And it's a way to for them to kind of self-identify if they are you know, if they fall under that category. And the last one is videos. We love videos. How often do we find ourselves watching videos on Instagram reels or YouTube or, you know, Facebook or whatever the social media platform is? You can totally get caught up in videos, right? All of a sudden 30 minutes have passed and you're like, Well, shoot, that was fun. But, um, so videos, obviously people enjoy videos and that's the, you know, the idea that if we just spent 30 minutes watching mindless videos, how much more interesting would it be to watch some videos on something that is of value to us? So those are the top three. I actually have a blog article that I will add the link to that has many other ideas for lead generators. But really the big idea is that anything can be.

Heather: [00:11:12] Use as a lead generator. So get creative and have fun with it. So how do you decide which is best for your clinic? That's the that's the question, right? Because you're like, well, I like quizzes, I like videos, I like checklists. So which one is best for my audience? Which one is best for my ideal client? So I think the big thing is the more you understand and know your ideal client, the easier it will be to pinpoint which one is going to work best for them. Um, so what is the the age range? This really goes into creating like a client persona, a customer persona. So what's the average age of your, of your clientele? And if you see children, then you need to recognize that you're not marketing to the children. Obviously you're marketing to their parents, right? Or their caregivers. So, so when you create that that customer persona, you need to create it for the parent or the caregiver in mind. So what is their average age? If you know, if again, if you see children and you're marketing for the parents, you would say, okay, average age of my. Of the parents that come in would be in the the mid 30s range. What is their profession, what's their activity level And what I mean by activity level is. Um, you know, like, what is their, their guess, what is their interest level? Um, so for a parent, a parent can be highly motivated to you can actually for a lot of lead generators, you could probably give them more because they are going to want to read everything they can get their hands on to help them figure out how to help their children.

Heather: [00:13:15] Um, we have a very vested interest in in helping our children live their best lives. And so. You know, we'll spend hours reading and trying to find the right. The right information for us to to be to really help our kids succeed and thrive. Right. Um, so, so really their interest level in in that as well as the, the therapy that they're doing. Um, and then the other idea is really to try a few out. Don't decide this is it and this is what I'm going to do and I'm not going to change no matter what. Don't get stuck on any one thing. Try it out for 4 to 6 months and obviously measure results if you're not seeing the results that you feel like or you're not seeing any results, then it might be time to review it, revise it, or completely throw it out. Right. Um, and start from scratch. So be be open to trying new and different things. Marketing is not a one time fix. It's a the more you do it, the better you will get at it and the more you will be able to discover what what works for your ideal clients and what does not.

Heather: [00:14:44] Um, and one last thing is, if you have anything on social media that has worked well, like let's say that you created a post and you just got a lot of comments on it and feedback on it, turn that into a lead generator. If there's something that is doing really well on social media, you have a pretty. Good idea that that's going to work for a lead generator. So take that idea that you used in on the social media post and then convert it into some type of lead generator, expand on it and convert it. Okay, guys, so your homework for this week is to guess what, create a lead generator. That might not be surprising to you. So this is your challenge. I want you to create some type of lead generator. Obviously, in creating a lead generator, you need to not just like I'm just going to write create a quiz and that's it. You've got to make sure that you set it up with the, you know, tools that will collect their emails. And and as far as like what information you want to collect, typically you can get away with just an email or their first name and an email is usually fine. So if you ask for. For much more than that, you run the risk of of a higher bounce rate. People saying, no, I'm not giving them this information. So only ask as much information as that you actually really, truly need.

Heather: [00:16:24] That's the idea behind it. Okay, guys. So I hope that you are excited to start creating your lead generator. Lead generation is a very powerful tool because it helps you build an email list. Which literally lead generation and email list. Those are the marketing tools that run while you sleep. They are marketing your business while you sleep. And once you get one set up, that's working well for you. The good news is, is that you can kind of just let it go and leave it, you know, to its own devices for a while and then review it every six months. So it's it can be once you figure out what's working, it can be just left alone to do its own thing. And you check in to see how it's working periodically. So it it definitely is one of the most powerful tools in creating marketing. So, um, I am excited. Let me know what kind of lead generators you have seen have worked for you that you've seen success in. I'd love to hear. Please share. You can find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. So come and you know, let me know. I'd love to hear. So anyways, happy marketing, you guys, and best of luck. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Erin: [00:00:43] Feel more comfortable. I feel like you did that on purpose.

Heather: [00:00:46] Yes. It was intentional. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome, everyone. This is episode 14 of Therapy Marketing Solutions Setting up Client Expectations in Therapy. And today I am so excited about this, this conversation we're going to be having today. So I have Dr. Erin Behrens, who is a licensed clinical psychologist in Chicago with me. Welcome, Erin. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. I am excited to have you here. So I have to give a little bit of background information and how I met Erin. So I actually met found Erin on LinkedIn. I just saw her post and it resonated with me so much that I reached out and I was like, We need to have a conversation. I love what you put on there. So I want to tell you guys a little bit about because her post, like I said, it just really resonated with me. She said, I'm not a forever therapist. And right there I was like, What? Like it caught my attention and it said, Many clinicians start a therapy relationship with a new client with zero conversation about how they'll know the therapy is done. Maybe they assume that all their clients want to be in weekly therapy for years.

Heather: [00:02:12] But guess what? Therapy is expensive. Time is precious. Our clients don't want to disappoint us by breaking up with us. So they may continue in therapy longer than than needed. Out of obligation and another considerations. There are not enough therapists to meet client demand. So her solution was goal focused. Time limited therapy has many benefits and is preferable to many clients. Um, so I loved this post. Like I said, Erin, it just really resonated with me. It caught me my attention immediately when she said, I'm not a forever therapist. I was like, What? Like, wait a minute. Stop. Stop scrolling through my feed. Um, and I loved what you said because you hit on so many fantastic points about therapy and about not only client expectations and things like that, but also like from a standpoint of need that there is a shortage of therapists out there. So if we can, you know, help clients and then move forward, then you're able to help additional clients. So wow, wow, wow, wow. Thank you so much for posting that. I appreciate it. So before we really get into this topic, Erin, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about what you do.

Erin: [00:03:35] Yes, would be happy to. I am a you know, like you said, a licensed clinical psychologist. And I've actually been directing a clinical program of research in academia on how to treat PTSD and addiction for over a decade now. And now I'm really focusing more on helping community behavioral health organizations and mental health startups to design, implement and evaluate these time limited, evidence based behavioral interventions in their settings. So I got to the point in my career where I said, Look, we know a lot about what works for a lot of the clinical problems that I am interested in and have expertise in. And these interventions are just not reaching enough people. So that's really become my mission.

Heather: [00:04:23] I love that. And some of that came from past experience, correct? When you were working in in a setting in the past, right?

Erin: [00:04:34] Yes. So I one of my past positions was in a school of medicine and a Department of Pediatrics. And, you know, the way that psychologists often function in those settings is that we have a couple of different duties. So I was doing my program of research, and then I was also seeing patients through a teen and young adult primary health clinic. So I was their first psychologist they had ever had in their clinic. And so I really had this opportunity to work with them to figure out how do they bring psychology into their clinic. And what I realized right off the bat was that they had so many patients who needed behavioral health interventions. There was a lot of anxiety, depression, trauma, some substance use. And, you know, sometimes some other, you know, more unique presentations to they had a lot of need, as clinics still do today, probably even more so. So I just realized really quickly, this is not a place where I'm going to really be hanging on to patients for a long time. I need to figure out how to help as many patients, you know, reach clear goals as quickly as possible in some way.

Heather: [00:05:49] Yeah, I love that. So what does time limited behavioral health interventions and treatment look like?

Erin: [00:05:57] Yeah, it's a great question. So I do want to preface this by saying to, you know, I know there are a lot of different orientations to how clinicians approach therapy. They're all valid. We need diversity in what's being offered. So this is certainly not to disparage therapists who who treat clients for years and years. We need people like that who clients can go back and rely on, but we also need providers who can do this time limited behavioral intervention work. So the context for this work is often, you know, when you're in a setting where maybe you have limited opportunity to connect with a client or a patient, sometimes that can even be just like one interaction or it can be, you know, the kind of setting like I described, where you have maybe a short time to effect change. And so what this looks like is just really having a clear assessment process where you have an opportunity to understand as quickly as possible what the main challenges are that a patient or a client is facing and work with them to develop really clear, measurable goals and then implementing a strategy that's been proven to work for reaching those goals and measuring progress towards those goals. So, for example, when I was working in the primary care clinic, I would have a standard assessment battery to get at some of the main anxiety and depression kinds of symptoms that patients would report.

Erin: [00:07:27] Give them feedback on what I learned, you know, get their input on how did that resonate with them, and then work with them around developing a plan. So part of that work was always upfront letting patients and when appropriate, their parents know, this is how I operate. You know, I'm at time, you know, this is time limited therapy. I can work with you for a few months on a weekly basis to reach these goals. And if you would still like to have some supportive counseling or other long term therapy afterwards, I'm happy to help refer you out to a provider that has that orientation. And so it was really uncommon that a patient would not like that approach and would say more often than not, with that teen population, they're really excited with the idea of not being in therapy forever. So it was typically the parents who wanted their kids connected a little longer. The teens themselves were like, Great, let's take care of this so I can get back to to school, to my friends, to my activities. Um, but that's just sort of one example. I think there are a number of settings where this kind of work can happen.

Heather: [00:08:34] Yeah. One of the things that I really love that you said, and even just in our past conversations, is that you talked about this like creating expectations with the client. And so you guys are working as a team. There's kind of this collaboration like, how can we work together? How can I assist you in your journey, which I think is empowering?

Erin: [00:08:58] Absolutely. And I think, you know, we really have an obligation to be really clear with our clients on what work we're doing with them and why. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've met with a client or a patient who has had prior therapy experiences and would tell me they had no idea what their therapist had been doing with them, or they would say, Oh, I don't know. I would just go in and talk about whatever was going on that week. And so that leaves the patient with this sense, too, of I don't know if what I'm doing is helping me. I don't see any change. So, you know, it really gives a chance to, like you said, empower the client to be an active participant in their care and then we can look together as a team. Are we are we reaching your goals? However, we've defined those. And if we're not, that might mean we need to do something differently. So I see it as constantly a work in progress and it holds me accountable too. Yeah.

Heather: [00:09:56] I actually just met with a client yesterday. One of my clients, and who's a therapist, and she said, You know, typically we do 20 sessions and obviously the number can change based on your practice and things like that. And she's like, But I also tell them if they don't feel like they're seeing something within 3 to 7 sessions, maybe we're not a good fit with one another. Maybe we need to review this Like, and I loved that she had this kind of these benchmarks where she was like, let's assess. Let's make sure that we're on the right path before we get, you know, six months, a year, whatever in. And we're like, what are we doing here?

Erin: [00:10:34] Yes. Yes. It sounds like that client would get along great.

Heather: [00:10:39] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a I loved that she and she puts it out there for people like, you know, right away immediately. So I think communicating that to potential clients is important as well beforehand because one of the things you said is, you know, often clients don't want to be in therapy forever. There's also the benefit that you're able to help more people. So there's so many benefits to having time limited goal oriented therapy.

Erin: [00:11:12] Yes, I agree completely. And it really, you know, I think it requires us as a therapist or the provider to sort of check our ego. We have to be willing to look at those outcomes data with our clients and to be able to feel comfortable to acknowledge if what we're doing isn't helping them as much as it could. So, you know, it's not always easy to get in the practice of doing it for that reason alone.

Heather: [00:11:39] Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things I want to ask about is how do you know that treatment has been successful? Like what are some things process wise or measurement tools? And we don't have to get into specific measurement tools, but just things that you use to assess success.

Erin: [00:12:00] Yes, that's a great question. So I think, you know, it really you know, like you said, it depends on sort of what the client's goals are. And so the more that you practice doing this measurement, you kind of build up sort of a library of brief measures that you can apply to different problems. You know, as a PhD psychologist, I am really symptom focused compared to some other types of providers. So that's kind of where I am. I feel most comfortable providing value to clients. So I use a lot of brief symptom checklists as a way to see if the client is improving. So I'll give you one example from some of my work that I've done is sort of designing a brief PTSD or post traumatic stress disorder intervention to fit within a residential addiction treatment program in the community. So we ultimately ended up knowing that we would have only three weeks to interface with the clients in this residential program. The first week, they were often getting through withdrawal symptoms. They were going through the onboarding and intake process just to get acclimated to the program. So we functionally had about three weeks to intervene with them. And so I ended up sort of modifying a gold standard PTSD intervention to really kind of cut down to some of the core ingredients.

Erin: [00:13:29] Based on my read of the literature and my experience with the intervention. And so we implemented this a couple times a week with these patients. And so in order to see if it was working, what we did was we gave a PTSD symptom checklist at the beginning of treatment and then at the end of the three week period just to see what was happening with their symptoms. And so the clients were telling us that they felt like they were getting better, but then we were able to also see how much better were they getting on that checklist. And we ended up seeing about a 65% reduction in their symptoms over that three week period. And so without having that measurement, I wouldn't really feel comfortable or confident recommending that modified approach to another provider to use. So I think that kind of gets at my point of like working with the time that you have. If you've only got three weeks, get the biggest bang for your buck in that three weeks and then make sure that you're measuring change so that you can tweak your approach if you need to.

Heather: [00:14:31] Yeah. And I know that a lot of what you you do is very evidence based. And then like, you know, like you said, measurement based where you're, you're finding ways to, to measure therapy, to measure progress, to measure even just, you know, overall, I guess, compatibility between clients and you.

Erin: [00:14:53] Yeah. And I think there are other you know, I, you know, again, I'm like really biased towards the symptom inventories just because of my sort of orientation. But you know I think as long as you're able to get an objective definition of what it is you're trying to change, it doesn't have to be only the symptom inventory. So, for example, you might be working with a patient and their goal is to, you know, be more social or develop stronger relationships. And so you can really work with the client to say, well, what what would that look like for you? How would you quantify, you know, sort of the the quality and quantity of relationships that you're trying to build? So you can you know, you can work with your patients in those instances to to come up with with your own metrics, but just to be able to be working towards something specific I think is really important. If you're trying to do this time. Limited intervention approach.

Heather: [00:15:45] Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Where they're, you know, helping to create the metrics that that they, you know, kind of look at success for. So even if it's like, well, what does being more social look like? Does that mean that you text five people this week or go out to dinner with someone or whatever that is their success? Looks like there's some way to measure it. And so instead, like when they come back the next week and and you might say, well, how did it go? You know, they'd be like, Good. Well, now all of a sudden you have something to be like, you know, almost like homework or something. Yeah, Yeah. Like, well, give me more, Tell me more. And so you're able to break that down and then work towards it. As I was doing a little bit of research for this topic, one of the things that, you know, that I read that really stood out to me was this idea of of when not only when you set goals as a clinician, but then when the client is able to be a part of those goals that they feel more successful in therapy as well. Yeah, it's clear, definable, you know, in goal as to what therapy is going to look like, what we're working towards and when therapy's over or you know, when there's an exit to therapy.

Erin: [00:17:04] Yes, absolutely. They definitely should be an active participant in setting those goals. But then also, like we shouldn't be hoarding information on their progress, you know, So I, I, you know, really value taking the opportunity every couple of weeks even to share progress with with clients. And I'm super nerdy and data driven and so I have to turn this into like little graphs, like I'll print a graph of clients progress. Here's where we started, here's where we are now. Look at how far you've come. Look at how much work you've put in. How are you feeling about where you are now? You don't want to forget that qualitative piece too. But what I've also noticed is, you know, people who have been struggling with their emotional health for a long time, they're a little hesitant sometimes to give themselves like props for what they've done and what they've accomplished. So it really can help establish trust with your client, too. It's not I'm not just telling you what you want to hear. I'm not just another person saying, Oh, you're doing great, you're going to be fine. I'm showing you this is what you told me about how you're feeling and how you're doing. I'm just reporting that back to you. So I think it can really help to build some self-efficacy for the clients, really build trust in the process and the relationship and just, you know, again, just be like an objective little metric on on how they're doing.

Heather: [00:18:25] Yeah, I love that. And again, it's that empowerment and that ability for them. Like you said, they don't often want to give themselves the pat on the back or whatever. Um, so they have. I don't it just it builds confidence. I would assume that that looking at that those little those reports and kind of seeing the metrics and be like, wow, okay, I started here and now I'm there, you know, there's going to be this confidence in themselves that that they're going to start to feel. Yeah. Through therapy.

Erin: [00:18:56] Yeah. And they may decide, you know, we've reached this point now I have some additional goals I want to work towards. Like now I see what's happened here. I want to do a little bit more. That's okay. That's great. Um, but yeah, you just need, need some tool to to give that feedback.

Heather: [00:19:10] Yeah. Okay. So I always like to leave a takeaway or a challenge to anyone who is listening to this. So what, what could be their takeaway or their challenge? What could be, you know, something that they could do to that they can bring into therapy?

Erin: [00:19:29] Yeah, I would say just to, you know, again, like I'd like to be really open to the idea that we as therapists approach our work differently. Not everyone's doing short term therapy. Not everyone is using the kinds of interventions I am. And that's okay. That's great. I would just ask people to consider how they, as a provider conceptualize meaningful change and how they engage their clients in that process. So just being really mindful to think about do I have measures in place to demonstrate progress with my clients? However, we are conceptualizing that together. And I would be really thrilled if people, you know, reached out and shared with me how they're doing this. I always love to hear from people, um, sort of on how they, they approach these different challenges. So.

Heather: [00:20:21] Yeah. I think one of the other things that we discussed, too, is that if they if they're if it makes sense for them to look for some kind of assessment tools that they can use to incorporate within therapy. Obviously, that's if it makes sense in their their business model and their practice and the kind of therapy that they are offering. But, you know, don't feel like you have to reinvent the wheel to like you don't have to create your own metrics. If something's already out there that fits or just needs to be adjusted to what you're already doing, then definitely, you know, Google the tools that you're looking for or start doing some research or ask other therapists to find what assessment tools they're using that have worked well with their clients.

Erin: [00:21:07] Absolutely. I think that's a great point, is not only is it a lot of work to reinvent the wheel, but we're not going to reinvent it as well as the person who's dedicated their life to creating symptom checklists. It's a very special area of expertise. And so I like to leave that to the measurement experts and then sort of use their tools that they've developed and tested and validated. So yeah, that's a great point is asking around. You know, there are a lot of resources online. The NIH has inventories and checklists that people can look at. You know, I think there are a lot of places to find these tools. And then once you've got them, you've got them. So, yeah, thinking about, you know, what kind of change are you pursuing with your clients and your practice and what are the existing measures out there to capture it?

Heather: [00:21:59] Yes. So, um, tell me a little bit more about what you're doing in your business. I'd love to hear about what? What's next for you?

Erin: [00:22:11] Yes, I'm really focusing on applying what I've learned in sort of my researcher life. Feel like I'm giving a bad answer. I'm going to give a pause now and have to cough.

Heather: [00:22:33] I'm going to ask that question again.

Erin: [00:22:35] Okay. Thank you.

Heather: [00:22:40] Okay, so what tell me about what's next for you. What are you working on right now in your in your business?

Erin: [00:22:49] Yeah. So what I'm doing now is really using the experience I've developed over the last dozen years or so to work with community behavioral health organizations and digital startups to help them design, implement and test evidence based behavioral health interventions. So I really am aiming to invest my skills where I can have the most impact, which I think is really helping providers and organizations that are on the front lines doing this tough work.

Heather: [00:23:23] I love that.

[00:23:25] So if you're interested in reaching out to Erin, I know she'd love to hear about what you're doing in your practice. And if you have any kind of, you know, quantitative tools that you're using or what assessment tools you're using in your practice, you can definitely reach out to her on LinkedIn and we'll actually have that link for your LinkedIn in the podcast. So notes. So check it out. Thank you so very much. I have enjoyed this. I love learning about what other people are doing in their businesses, how they are finding success and then, you know, just how they're helping their clients to feel successful. So again, thank you very much for being on this episode. Erin Thank you. It's been my pleasure. Um, and this is another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:24:24] We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:01:42] So when you're creating content for your About Us page, you want to ensure that everything ties back to how you solve their problem. Everything, whether it be your bio, whether it be an introduction, like a couple paragraphs about your business. How is it solving their problem? And want to dig into this a little bit more. Let's unpack this. So what does that mean? So if we're creating the About Us page and we are working what I typically tell clients to do and when I write content for them is that top portion of the About Us page. So you've got your header on the top and then that next section we typically will talk about their problem. We we highlight the problem that they are facing because the truth of the matter is that no matter what anyone buys, no matter what service they start using, they do it for one purpose only, and that is to solve their problem. So you need to be solving their problem in everything that you do say and highlight. You know, like every part of your business, every part of your marketing needs to be talking about the problem that you solve. And you could say like right now, but I saw lots of problems. And that's true. Um, you know, I run a marketing business. I solve lots of problems. We do lead generators, we do websites, we do, um, you know, email campaigns, so on and so forth.

Heather: [00:03:23] But the overall problem that I solve is that it's not even just that I help people with their marketing. It's really that I help businesses grow. And I do that by helping them fill their schedules, by helping to drive more traffic to their websites so that they can then have more leads. So that's the real problem that I solve. It's not helping marketing. It's let me help you bring more people into your website. Onto, you know, filling out your contact form into calling you into scheduling an appointment with you so that you know, and it's the same for your business. So you have to think about it in that sense. You may offer a variety of services, but what is the problem that you solve? What is that overarching problem that you solve and that's what you want to be talking about on your about page. So like I said, that first paragraph, first like section, not just paragraph. You want to talk about your client's problem and then you want to talk about how your practice uniquely solves it. So this is your opportunity to differentiate from your competitors, whether that be that you in the customer service that you provide or in the systems that you use in in whatever it is. Just as a quick example, my kid's orthodontist, he uses a particular.

Heather: [00:05:01] My method of working with children and braces. So. For him. This is his opportunity to say, Hey, I use the blank system or the blank method to, you know, help them. And we don't want to get too much into the weeds. We don't want to get too technical. So make sure you're not doing that. But, you know, discussing that you do something different or you have a different approach or, you know, is is an opportunity for you to differentiate yourself. But keep in mind, always keeping in mind that you are still talking about your client's problem. And everything that you write you need to say is this tying back to how I solve their problem? And then afterwards you really want to describe what life looks like afterwards. So you've highlighted their problem. You've talked about how your practice uniquely solves it, and then you paint a picture of what life looks like afterwards after working with you. Um, so we've got that section. The next section typically is a lot of businesses will, will, you know, put their bios on there. And it is important to have bios. I think it is because it gives them the opportunity to get to know you without actually having to interface with you. So they get a little sneak peek again, though, just saying, Hey, I went to school at this university and I got this degree and I, you know, specialize in ABC.

Heather: [00:06:50] That's cool.

Heather: [00:06:52] That's cool. But and it's important, you know, you I mean, heck, you went to school. That's, you know, and got a degree that's going to help them. So it is important, but it's not important to just list it off. It's not like a grocery list, like did this, did that. We want to make sure that it doesn't feel like a grocery list, that you're just listing off all of your qualifications. Instead, let's talk about why you went to school so you could say something like, um. Uh, I helped a client write a bio one time, and she was a speech language pathologist, and her interest in speech language pathology came about as a result of her own speech impediment with the speech struggles that she had. So that was really interesting because it was it was interesting for them. They could the clients could resonate with that. They're like, oh, my child has a speech problem. Oh, their speech therapist used to struggle with, you know, with saying certain sounds. Um, so it was, it was an interesting bio because we literally started with, you know, as a child I struggled with speech sounds and my interests, you know, the interest came, um, in, in speech as a result of attending speech myself. And so it also built this empathy level, this level of empathy where you're like. My therapist. You know, my speech language pathologist gets me. We want to be careful, though, to not, you know, obviously air out all of your your baggage or your luggage or whatever to like. Let's not. Like paint this this story, but we can do it in a way that we can carefully do it. So So we don't want to be like. I don't I'm trying not to be I'm trying to give an example that. But we definitely don't want to be like.

Heather: [00:08:59] Well, you.

Heather: [00:09:00] Know, like I guess the example is we don't want to be like a country song, okay? So we don't want to be like, my truck broke down, my wife left me and my dog died. Okay. So let's not give that. That's the only example, the best example that I can give. So let's avoid the country song bio and. But, you know, you have an opportunity to to talk about your why to do it in a way that highlights your education and but shows that you're passionate about what you do and passionate about helping them. So again, it's going to tie back into helping them that, you know, as a child you struggled with speech and. You know, it made you feel bad. You sometimes you struggled with confidence as a result. And so you really want to help children, which which gave you an interest, let's say that it allowed you to become interested or you became interested in helping others as a result. You see how like much this just so much more intriguing, it's they want to get to know you. They're like, Oh, I know a little bit about you. That also has something to do about us and how you solve their problem. So let's talk about like, what if you have nothing? Like what if there was nothing to do? Like, um, you didn't have a speech impediment or you didn't have speech struggles, articulation problems. And and so that's not why you became a speech pathologist. It could just be something like, I took a class, like I've had another client who really be became interested in audiology because of a project that they did and their, um.

Heather: [00:11:01] In their undergrad studies. And that led to just this deep passion for for hearing. So that could it could be as simple as that because, again, it is tying something tying part of your story with their story, but it's doing it in a way that says, I want to help you. I'm passionate about helping you. Um, and here's kind of my why behind it. Okay, so. Um. You know, I think that. I love what Donald Miller says, He says. Donald Miller from Storybrand says, When I make the about us about you, it makes you want to do business with me. I'm like, Oh, okay, you guys, that is amazing. So when you make your about us, about your clients, they want to do business with you because all of a sudden they realize you want to help them. You have their best interests at heart. You are passionate about them. It really removes the barrier of just talking about yourself and creating. I mean, why do we why do we have businesses, especially allied health professionals, you know, therapy businesses. You guys are passionate about helping other people. You really every. You know, in all of the services you offer, it's about improving someone's life, whether that be through hearing aids, you know, someone who struggles with hearing and providing them with hearing solutions, whether that be with counseling and helping them have some, you know, moments of self-discovery and enlightenment or teaching them, you know, giving them some coping techniques.

Heather: [00:13:09] You are helping them. So why wouldn't your About us page and even. Your website and your marketing and your business be about them, right? Um, anyway, so this is the big idea I want to leave you guys about your about page is not about your business. It's not about you. It is about your clients and how you help them. So the challenge for this week, what I want to leave you with is I want you to go and review your about page. And to revise it accordingly, Change it to to be about the problem that your client is facing and how you help them solve it. And then I want you to see what difference it makes, see if it's, you know, you can do that through obviously tracking like Google Analytics and stuff like that. See if they spend more time on your About Us page and see if it really makes a difference, see if someone says something about it. But I guarantee that if your About Us page is about your clients, they are going to be more excited to work with you. And that's all guys for this episode. I wish you the best of luck in writing and revising your About Us page. Happy marketing y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Lauren: [00:01:04] Hi. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Heather: [00:01:07] Yeah, I am excited to have you. So to tell all of you guys and to give you a little intro, Lauren has actually worked with my business. She has helped me with some of my onboarding and offboarding. And just like as we go through processes with clients. So I'm a big fan of Lauren's and and she's actually matched me with my VA, who I absolutely love. So so yeah, so I can't say enough good things about Lauren and that's why I wanted to have her on today. Because when you have a process, when you have a system in your clinic, um, things just flow easier. You're not having to like have all this head space for all the things that are missing. You're able to create more and you're able to, to better serve your clients. Um, so, Lauren, I want to start off really with jumping right in and telling me or telling us really a little bit about your business.

Lauren: [00:02:12] Yeah. Systems to scale. We actually officially launched with what we do kind of in the formality since the beginning of 2021. So it hasn't been really long, but it's really incredible how much we have grown in this last year, just seeing the missing piece kind of in the marketplace because we are twofold. We are I am a systems strategy coach and consultant that helps business owners really automate and be more productive and set up their systems and processes. But also we are a virtual assistant agency because really in order to scale the six and seven figures, you have to get your systems and processes in order and delegate and offload all of the operations side of your business so that you can serve clients, so that you can be the face to your brand, so that you can get out there and do the things that only you can do and allow somebody else who's skilled in those areas to really take over all of that. Plus, it helps us in our energy levels, you know, where we don't have to constantly be like dragging about all the things we don't necessarily want to do, and it's distracting us from the things we really need to be focused on and have the energy for.

Heather: [00:03:16] I love that you said that because with a lot of therapists, a lot of individuals who are in the therapy field, burnout is a major problem. Yeah, it is a huge problem. I mean, I could say probably it's a problem across, you know, all businesses in some way, shape or form. But burnout is a really big problem because they are handling so much, especially as business owners. Um, they are, you know, I mean, when you're a business owner, you have to wear a lot of hats and then at the same time they're seeing clients, typically a lot of them are still seeing clients, so they've got a full load. So I love that you say that, you know, by creating systems, by recruiting the help, you are able to have more, you know, energy and to have more capacity to to think outside the box and to think really about your your business, It actually creates an opportunity to have a vision. Could you guys imagine that having the time to like have a vision about where you want your business to go? That's that's amazing. So I really love that you, um, you say that. So what are some of the services you said that you offer VA and then really that you come in and look into all of their systems and do like a thorough analysis, correct?

Lauren: [00:04:39] Yeah. So we work mainly in the operations side of any person's business. Kind of like what you would have a CO come in and do. However, we we offer the strategy, the, the coaching, the consulting because a lot of times you'll get an admin who can work in your business, but they're not going to be systems minded. And so we can take what you've done all along and we can refine it and make it better and simplify it and make it easier for someone else to manage and oversee that side of your business. And so we do do that coaching and consulting. I also offer just strategy sessions. If somebody wants to walk through and say, Hey, I'm really struggling, like what are my next steps in in bringing a client in or starting a new project or onboarding a client and saying, Hey, it's time to go, But I still want them to think of me when they need my services again, those kind of things. I can just jump on a call and help offer a strategy for you as well. But we do have a team that's very skilled in all the different areas, like CRM workflows, project management boards, many of the digital tools that we use to create these processes and systems that will help do some implementation as well.

Lauren: [00:05:42] So we offer that. And then of course, I have one of my superpowers is my sixth sense to match people to that are really going to help partner with them in their business because it's not just about skills and tasks, but it really is about finding someone who can be a long term partner with your business. You don't want someone who's just there to put in the hours, but you want someone who is really going to care about your business. And work alongside it and help grow and develop it. When I brought in team members to help me in my business, I recognized my business became stronger not just because they were doing work, but because they had so much more to offer ideas and new things to do and a different set of eyes than my eyes alone. Alongside that. And so I really love to see people get partnered up and find a virtual assistant who could be a project manager, who could be a social media manager, who could do lots of different things remotely for you, but can really be a long term partner in your business.

Heather: [00:06:34] Yeah, Yeah. And I love that, you know, you do the consulting and things like that because the problem with a lot of businesses is that we don't know what we don't know. We don't know where the gaps are. We think we have a process. We think everything looks good. And unless you've been on that other side as the actual client, sometimes you don't see all of the gaps. And whereas you, you know, are working with multiple businesses and so you can kind of take your experience with working with all these different businesses and say, Hey, I noticed a gap here. Like, what can we do here? Let's create a system here. Let's do some, you know, standard operating procedures, SOPs, so that whoever is here is going to be able to have success. And I also love that. Um, so there's a quote that I it says it's by W Edwards Deming, who's a leading management thinker in the field of quality, and he says, put a good person in a bad system and the bad system wins no contest. And that was like all the, you know, the sirens and the bells and the whistles all went off for me. And it's like, it's true. If you don't have a good system in place, you could have a person who is so excited to work with you who wants to do, but they will fail because they don't know. They're not inside your brain.

Heather: [00:07:57] They don't know what you know, and you're trying to impart all of your knowledge out of your brain. Takes a lot. So, um. So matching people who can, you know, first create the system and then matching someone who can really come in and improve, you know, not only run the system, but then offer advice and thoughts. And that's one of the things that I really love about my VA is that, you know, she's great at being like, Hey, what would you think if we did that? And I'm like, Fantastic. Because I don't again, I don't know what I'm missing. I don't know where the gaps are all the time. Um, yeah, that's great. So it often feels like you're like a horse with blinders on where you're like, you know, you need someone to have that other like to be able to see the other perspectives. So, um, so for therapy businesses, what are some of the, the processes and systems that, that you feel like they should have in place? Um, I know we had, we kind of discussed this like, you know, possibly like some kind of intake process for when someone first, um, clicks the button on their website. So let's talk about that in a little bit more. Um, so. You know, once they click the button on their website, obviously that has to do something. It has to trigger some event, Right?

Lauren: [00:09:25] Right? Yep. And I think a lot of times that is one of the big missing pieces when it comes to processes is we see leads fall through. I know in a therapy business you don't want to necessarily say lead, but but a prospect that's going to come into your clinic and use your services, you really don't want them to fall through the cracks. You want them to feel like and especially in this kind of high touch industry where someone needs to feel valued and loved and listened to and all of those things, you want them to feel like, hey, they matter and they're important. And our human nature tells us if something happens, if we go and fill out a form and we don't ever hear back that we are not important, right? That we might as well not waste our time on that. And so making sure that whatever you have set up on your website, your forms are working correctly, is like a huge part of that process and that system and checking that regularly because we all know technology can fall through and we need to to be able to evaluate and inspect consistently whether that's once a month or quarterly. Having that as part of your process. But where does that go? What happens next? You send an automated email. That's typically what happens, right? Somebody fills out a form, there's an automated email that goes to their inbox that explains more about their services, maybe asks them to set up a call or to come in and schedule an appointment, maybe directs them to something that's going to explain more about their services.

Lauren: [00:10:44] But what if that person never responds? Right? Do we have a continuation of that follow up process? Because you know what? Sometimes email ends up in junk or spam or sometimes it gets missed and overloaded by a bunch of other things. Or again, sometimes technology just doesn't work. And so we need to make sure we have a consistent process of how many days are we waiting on this Before we follow up, are we only following up via email? Do we have a process in place to collect their phone numbers that we could call them and give them a call and direct them that way? Do we add them to our Lead Nurture series? If some point they decide that they're not ready to move forward at this point? Well, we still want to be top of mind, right? So there's all these little pieces that you could add into that, like onboarding process or that that lead prospect process of being able to bring them in because, you know, statistics tell us and I don't know, you might know more about the therapy business specifically, but online business in general is that sometimes it can take six plus months for someone to actually buy into your services and choose to move forward with that. And so they need to be reminded. We're all bombarded with so many different things, right? They need to be reminded of who you are and what you can offer to them before they decide to move forward in that way.

Heather: [00:11:56] Yeah, and I love that you said, you know, especially in the therapy business, I have all therapists, all those in allied health services, so allied health professionals, audiologists, whatever they they became or they entered that profession, I guess I should say, because they cared about people. They really care about people. And so having your system, your intake process in place allows you to continue to show that you are caring about people. It may be automated, but there are ways that we can do it to make sure that they are consistently feeling taken care of. And that is a huge way of taking care, of making people feel like they are valued, take care of them along the whole process. Um, so another area is really once they start working together with the client and in this area, you know, for me is what I tell a lot of my clients therapy clients is, you know, just make sure that you're touching, you're over overcommunicating with them, make sure that they know where they are in the process. If there is something like, for example, a speech language pathologist do reports for them every so often and say, here's where we are. These are the sounds that your child is working on. This is where we're going to be next. This is where, you know, like you can, um, support your child, stuff like that. Like people will eat it up and they will love that. So no matter what industry in within like therapy that you're in, find ways that you can overcommunicate to them. Yeah.

Lauren: [00:13:45] Think it's all about managing expectations, right? Is everybody's going to walk in with expectations, whether it's the accurate expectations or you're on the same page as somebody else. And if you can on the front end, tell people what to expect, then they can't be disappointed. They can't come back and say, well, this didn't meet my expectations and I was upset about this. And so really communicating to such a part, to such a distinction that it almost feels annoying that you've said it so much. Right. Because we all know we get emails, we don't read them. We listen to we have to hear it multiple times. I mean, think about your children. How many times do you have to tell them the same thing over and over again to get them to do it? And then sometimes I have to remind myself, well, I guess sometimes I have to be told the same thing over and over again to to remind myself to do it and managing those expectations and then also anticipating their questions. And a good exercise you can do in creating a great process for this is every time you're on a call with a client or you have a session with a client, literally just record the questions that they ask. If you get an email from a client record, the questions that they ask, and then you can look back and look through those and say, okay, well, what kind of questions are these? Are these ones that are managing their expectations or what's coming next? Or or what should I do when how can I communicate this in a way that they don't even have to ask the question? And we're really answering that for them in advance?

Heather: [00:15:08] Yes, I love that. I love that. So take notes Any time anyone has any question about your business, the process, you know, billing any of that, write them all down. And I actually have done a couple of times where I've done an exercise where I just start like writing anything anyone would want to know about my profession or how I can help them. For me, I've been creating like blog posts and things like that content so that they can find those answers. But I love that you can create processes out of those too, to say, okay, so a common question that I get is, you know, how often will I be billed? And so then you make sure that you have something for them, whether that be an email, a handout or just, you know, discussing it, hey, your bill comes a 15th of every month or whatever that is. So take those questions, create processes out of them. And then the last area where I feel like a lot of businesses really forget, I mean, even within my own business, I really wanted to create this amazing onboarding and I thought about it, but I because I was so busy with the other two areas, I didn't have the time for this. So after you start working with after you have worked with a client, what are some things that we can do as far as like onboarding them?

Lauren: [00:16:36] Yeah, well, think one again. It's managing those expectations, so it's delivering to them in a communicative way. Here's what we've done and here's what I recommend the next steps are for you. And if it's something you can offer, that's great, go ahead and upsell them. I know this is you know, we're talking about therapy, but but this is selling your services. So go ahead and upsell them on what the next step is so that you can help them the way that they need help. If not, finding having resources at your fingertips of where you could send them next along in that in that process. I think the other thing is, is a lot of times even in therapy clinics and in that type of industry and service, when you're serving a client, it might be for a season and then they come back later. Right? There's something else that that kind of disrupts them and they need another season to kind of go through that. And so again, you want to be constantly reaching out to them, reminding them of the things that you've worked through is a great way to do this is just, you know, having a timed reminder at a certain point, whether it's six weeks later saying, Hey, I just wanted to check in and see how you were doing and make sure that this is still going good.

Lauren: [00:17:43] Or how have you been doing in this particular area that we had worked through and were discussing and kind of managing that, but having that consistent process where you're checking in, not annoyingly, okay, you don't want to be sending an email every week for six months, but spacing out your timing in order to do that and then just delivering special things, right? Whether that's a handwritten note thanking them for using you or allowing you to be a part of their process, putting that in there and sending that out at the end. Or sometimes people have like offboarding gifts that they give their clients or they have, you know, they lead them to an email series that's perfectly timed, that walks along something that relates to them, those kind of things. And so thinking through what are what are all of the opportunities I have to continue to touch these clients to have high touch opportunities to communicate with them and allow them to be remain in my circle of, you know, just warm leads to just show up and be available when they need me again.

Heather: [00:18:42] Yes. Yeah, I love that. And I love the idea of giving little gifts and things like that. Um, I've worked with, you know, a speech language pathologist who who worked with kids who were thumb suckers. And so they gave them a little trophy when they were done. That's awesome. Their thumb. That's a great idea. Just kind of say, hey, let's let's have a moment. Let's congratulate you where you're at. And it's those like again, back to those touch points and that human interaction and you're making them feel valued. And not only that, but it does another thing. So not only like may they come back, but they're also going to be raving fans and they're going to tell everyone about you because they're going to be like, Hey, guess what? You know, so and so. She's the most amazing therapist and she's done these things for me or, you know, John, he was my physical therapist and really helped me after my my knee operation or just whatever it is. Um, so I know that actually bringing up physical therapists, my kids, a couple of my kids have done physical therapists and they get assured at the end they still wear them. They wear in to school like amazing advertising for that therapist. Um. So. But I know that it can feel like a lot of work. I know that it can feel a little bit frightening to change things. So Klaus Schwab, who is an engineer, an economist and a founder of the World Economic Forum, said change can be frightening and the temptation is often to resist it. But change almost always provides opportunities to learn new things, to rethink tired processes and to improve the way we work. And I think that's one of the thing is if you're going to create a system or a process, then you need to buy into it, right? You know, take a very good look at it, analyze it, and then buy into it and say, this is what we are going to do until we decide that we need to improve it. This is our system.

Speaker3: [00:20:50] Right?

Lauren: [00:20:51] Yeah. And I think a system is only as good as the people who are operating it. So we have to recognize that as we are and as businesses are constantly in a state of evolvement and change and development, so are our systems. And so recognizing that, hey, if we can get these things really clear and take away the complexity, take away the overwhelming nature, start to make it habitual, you know, I usually tell a business owner, you just start somewhere and you start somewhere small, and that could be as simple as taking 10 or 15 minutes at the beginning and the end of your day to just refine the way you're doing with things and looking into your system. Or, you know, one of the biggest things that that business owners struggle with and working with me is starting to use a project management tool if they haven't already. And it's that habit of getting things out of your head, off of scratch pieces of paper and making sure it's in that tool so that your whole team is communicated with. And so it's just taking little chunks and starting to do that on a small basis until it becomes habitual. But we all know as adults, right, building habits are hard, they're really hard, and sometimes we fail and we just have to keep picking ourselves up. And so if we are committed to doing something and making sure it works, it's just showing up and continuing to work in that and then allowing ourselves the grace to recognize, well, maybe there's a reason this isn't working and we need to evolve it and tweak it and refine it as our business grows and evolves in that way as well.

Heather: [00:22:16] Yeah, definitely. Now, I know one of the things we kind of discussed before we jumped on this podcast is a common misconception, and I want to I want to talk about that for just a half a second. You know, because creating a system or a process is, is a habit because, you know, sometimes people kind of push back on it and they feel like it. It's changed all of a sudden. They're not flexible anymore and their business and they're not offering a custom, you know, solution to their client. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that and talk about that a little bit more.

Lauren: [00:22:53] Yeah. As people focused entrepreneurs and business owners, we want to serve people right? And it's really hard for us sometimes to to meet people and hear about what they're doing and want to serve them with where we're passionate and to say, well, they don't really fit in. And so sometimes we feel like if we have this structure and these benchmarks in place and these processes and these systems, that it's going to keep us from the flexibility of being able to serve people and being able to change what we offer them or being able to change our prices or, you know, that's a big one, is well, sometimes I just want to not charge as much, even though I need to make this amount of money. Sometimes I just want to serve this one person. Well, that's okay. If you have the systems and processes in place that actually makes it easier to do that, it doesn't make it more difficult because think about your schedule in your day. If you have blocks where you're getting the important things done in your day and your week, then you have free time. That's flexible for you to say, Okay, well, for me, I work from home sometimes with my four kids and sometimes they're just having a hard day.

Lauren: [00:23:53] And I have to say, okay, it's time to close my computer and it's time to just give them some one on one attention while I have the freedom to do that. If I have the habits and the system in place to get the things done that need to be done and not end up like twiddling my thumbs and wasting my time. And that's the same thing with when we serve clients. If we have the benchmarks and the major tables that we need to serve them in these areas, it allows us the freedom and the opportunity then to come in and to serve them in additional ways or to add an extra deliverable or to to come in and do something above and beyond what we normally do, or to change our prices or to serve them for free. Right. All of those things in that flexibility and the customized approach we want to have for our clients can be offered. The more systems and processes we have in place allows for the more freedom of that.

Heather: [00:24:42] Yeah, Yeah. And one other thing is that customers and clients, clients love systems, they love processes because again, they're not falling through the cracks. They know that they're being taken care of every step of the way. They. Every step of the way has been anticipated, too. And so that's, you know, as another plug for processes and systems. I would just say just that you're actually serving your clients better because of it for sure. So. Well, I like to leave, you know, at the end of the podcast kind of a takeaway. So or maybe a challenge. So what would be your takeaway or challenge for, you know, clinics and practices?

Lauren: [00:25:26] Yeah. So if you're at a place in your business and you really don't have a plan of where you want to be in five years, that would be my major challenge is to discover what direction you want to head because there's lots of different places as you grow and develop. Some people just want to stay where they are and they're great and that's a great place to be. Well then you can develop your systems and processes based around that. But if you decide, Hey, I want a franchise and I want to have clinics in all different locations and I want to be able to empower different therapists to own different clinics and all of these things, then that's going to change the way that you approach your systems and processes, the way that you hire onto your team. And so I would challenge you to really take some time and dive deep, like in five years. What kind of work do you want to be doing? Where do you see your business growing and your clinic looking like and how can you start moving towards the right systems and processes in order to get there?

Heather: [00:26:18] Yeah, I love that. You know, Donald Miller talks about that often, looking at, you know, forecasting your life, creating that vision and then reverse engineering it. And that's really what you're doing is if you look at five years from now and you say, hey, this is where I want to be, maybe I want to have a couple locations open, maybe I just want to grow my one location from the 1 or 2 therapists to ten therapists, whatever that is. Well, now all of a sudden you have a plan and then you can ask yourself, How am I going to get there? What steps do I need to take to get there? How do I need to change my business? How do I need to grow my business in order to get to that place? So I think that's that's a really great challenge. So I would just suggest, you know, just even take like 15 minutes. It doesn't have to be a lot of time and just start writing, just start, you know, think about where your business can be in five years and just start writing. And I think it'll be exciting for you. And it might be eye opening, too, right? Right. So, well, thank you so much, Lauren, for being on this podcast. So, you know, I again think your work is amazing and I feel like it has helped me in my business grow so much and I'm able to take on more things and move my business forward where I felt like before I was a little bit, you know, just kind of floundering or plateauing. So what are some things that are going on in your business? Tell us a little bit about some services and things in your business.

Lauren: [00:27:54] Yeah, One of our main exciting offerings that we have going on right now is called 60 Day Systems to Scale. And what we do here is we take 60 days, we perform a business systems audit with a business owner, and we take those 60 days and we set up the five main business foundational systems in your business, and that's your email management, your file organization, your team communication, your project management and your workflows, which is a lot like we talked about those processes that you would take clients through and we get those super clean and organized. We add to them, we automate them, we create the SOPs, and then we help you outsource that. If that's the stage that you're in. If not, we help you take off that extra time that you've been doing those things in manually so that you can relax and not have to focus as much on the operations. And so I would love to offer that to any of the listeners here. I can have a special discount available to you if you reach out and let me know that you are interested in our 60 day systems to scale. And you heard me here on this blog, I will offer a discount for you there. And you can you can hear from me at hello at systems scale.org. Shoot me an email and tell me all about your business. I would love to hear more about it.

Heather: [00:29:04] Thank you so much again, guys, this is your call. This is your wake up call. Get your systems and processes in order. It's going to free up time. It's going to make you happier in your business as a business owner. And that's just kind of the parting words that I want to leave for you. And with that being said, happy marketing, y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:01:40] I can't tell you how many websites I have been on that lack a call to action. So we are going to break it down today. I'm going to give you some tips on how to use call to actions placement. You know, all the things about call to actions so that you understand and of course, you know, create some challenges for you and challenge you guys. So if, like I said, if there's nothing else you get out of this episode, have a call to action. You know, I can drop the mic and walk away at this point. Right. So let's dig into it. Right. So call to action. Call to action, you know, can be a variety of things. Um, really, what you're doing is you're calling someone to take a specific action to fill out an intake form or request more information, sign up for your newsletter or download something. Et cetera. Et cetera. Right. It's like I said, it is getting someone to take an action. Well, why is it important? Why is action important? Well, Pablo Picasso sums it up really well. He says action is the foundational key to success. So getting someone to take an action is the foundational key to your business's success. I'm not saying it's the only key, but it is a foundational key. It is at the foundation of your marketing.

Heather: [00:03:12] So if you do not ask someone to take a specific action, they sometimes won't. People like knowing what the next thing is. A call to action creates clarity in that. Um, so there's two different kinds of call to actions. And for today's episode, we're really going to focus on the call to action button. Uh, so there's two different kinds though, of call to actions. One is the direct call to action, and the other one is a transitional call to action. A direct call to action is. For all intents and purposes, the thing that you want someone to do when they are on your website. I I've done a lot of reviews, website reviews and things like that. And I tell people often like if you're called to action is not clear, is not consistent and is not noticeable, then people might miss it. They're not going to know how to get started with you. And that's ultimately the whole entire goal of your website, is to give them enough information that they want to start with you, that they want to take the next step in the relationship. That's all you're doing, the whole entire website. Get them to take the next step. So by using powerful call to actions, that's what we're doing. So Ray Edward Edwards, he is literally like the godfather of copywriting and sells.

Heather: [00:04:47] He, in his book How to Write Copy that sells. He says this is one of the areas where copy tends to often be the weakest, the response request. You should not be shy about making this request. You should tell the customer exactly what to do in order to get your program, your consulting, your book, etcetera. Completed done. You know, and in his code obviously he says program consulting book. But for you guys a lot of business owners it's in order to get them to schedule an appointment. So a direct call to action is the one thing you want them to do on your website to get them to take the next step in working with you. And now let's talk about transitional call to action. I just want to touch on this lightly. A transitional call to action is really what it sounds like, a transition. It is less commitment and it's a way to it's almost like a baby step, like direct call to action. Take the full step. A transitional call to action. What's that little baby step you want them to take? That might be subscribed to your lead generator. Sign up for our newsletter. Um. You know, download an episode or a video or whatever it is, it is typically in exchange for an email address. So all you're asking for is an email address.

Heather: [00:06:26] Um, I say all you're asking, but I know that's a big ask. Um, so that transitional call to action, you need to make sure that what you are exchanging and we're going to go more into lead generators in another episode but that you are asking for their email in exchange for some kind of valuable piece of content. Every business is different and it really depends on who your client is, your ideal client. So knowing who they are will help you to create a lead generator that. That they want, that they want that they're excited about. And so that's transitional call to action is is part of that lead generation tool. So back to direct call to actions, I just wanted to kind of touch on the transitional call to action, just to let you guys know that there are two different types. But I want to get back to the direct call to action. And we are going to get into some tips for today. Uh, so just a couple of things. Keep it consistent. So what does that mean? Keep it consistent? Well, your call to action should be the same on everything. I mean, occasionally, like I said, if there's a transitional call to action, it's going to be different. But if you're using a direct call to action, whether you are on social media, in an email, on your website, your Google ads, your SEO, if you add like a call to action to them, it needs to be the same.

Heather: [00:08:03] The reason behind that is when you are consistent. People understand what you want them to do. It always goes back to understanding make it simple and make it easy. Um, and that kind of the next tip goes along with that. Keep it clear. Cleverness is. The. The master of the king of confusion. So if you have to decide between clever or clear. Always pick clear. When it comes to call to action, there are ways to have a call to action. You know, be different, be unique with and still be clear. Um, in fact, I've got a freebie today that you can download and it has, you know, several different call to actions that aren't the same. So it's not just book an appointment or schedule an appointment or schedule a consultation. So, um. But but, you know, is is unique and can be unique to your brand. So hopefully, even if you don't use the ones that I have in the freebie, it'll get you thinking about a clear call to action that you can consistently use on your website. So the next thing that I see so many people miss out on is make it noticeable. Don't make it hard to find your call to action. Should be if you're looking at a you know on a desktop, desktop computer should be in the top right corner of your navigation.

Heather: [00:09:51] Um, that top portion where all your pages are listed, it should be a bright color, so it should stand out in your navigation. You know, you can have the other things like service about and then have your call to action where everyone can see it. The your prospects eyes should be drawn to it. Another really important place is where people miss out on is having a call to action in that top header portion where the images or the video or whatever put a button there too, and then I want you to put a button in at least every other section of that page. So if you've got on the top, if you've got this beautiful image and it says, um, physical therapy in Ohio and below that, um, I mean, obviously we could talk about, you know, better titles than just physical therapy in Ohio. Um, but below that, have your call to action button and then you have another section which might talk about some of the services and below that have a call to action in that next section. And then you have maybe some testimonials and then the next section, guess what? Call to action. So your call to action should be on your page.

Heather: [00:11:19] And it kind of depends on the length of the page, but it should be on the page at least 3 to 5 times on one page and do it for every page. Every page needs a call to action button. And the last tip really is, is to make sure that your direct call to action is actually direct. Don't make it passive. The language learn more is is very passive. It is ambiguous. What do you want me to learn more about? Um, it's kind of making the the prospect take that leap as to trying to read your mind. Well, I assume they want me to read more or learn more about their services or whatever. So. So just make sure that it is. It's very direct as to that next step. Start now. Get started. Um, you know, schedule an appointment. Call us. Schedule a consultation. Book a consultation. All of those are direct in what they want your prospect to do next. So keep it consistent, keep it clear, make make it noticeable and make it direct. Those are the four things that need to happen with your call to action, you know, and then of course, be strategic in, in what you're called to action is and the placement of it make sure it makes sense. And that's what I really mean by strategic is just make sure it makes sense to to the average viewer of a website.

Heather: [00:13:16] So as you guys know, we always end each episode with a challenge. So here's your challenge, pretty simple this week. Number one, review your call to action. Um, obviously, if you don't have one, create one, create a call to action and then add it all over your website. Add it all over, um, add it all over your marketing. So side note on that is that if you're doing social media, don't add it to every post. People that just chafes just isn't right, you know? But add it to every fourth or fifth social media post. Um, and, and that's kind of it, you guys. So by doing this you are going to make it clear exactly what you want them to do. What the next step in working with your business is. Um, and you'll see results. It's an easy, a relatively easy fix for your business that will help you see results. So make sure that you are getting prospects and clients to take action by using call to actions. Happy marketing you all. Thanks so much. See you next episode. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Michelle: [00:01:09] Hi, Thank you. Welcome. I am very excited to be here.

Heather: [00:01:13] Yes, Thank you so much. So Michelle, how long have you been an SLP?

Michelle: [00:01:19] So I started practicing in about 20, about 2008. My background is as a school based speech and language pathologist and very early in my career, I really fell in love with the use of technology and how we can use technology to deliver effective services. Um, I live in Massachusetts in a very rural area of the state, and a lot of kids were not receiving the services that they needed. So way back then, before it was even cool, I started looking at Telepractice and how we could use technology specifically Telepractice to deliver direct services. Subsequently, I went on to get my PhD and really focused on the use of Telepractice specifically for students with autism and quickly fell in love with how technology could be used for other things such as workload management. And that kind of brings me to my current project.

Heather: [00:02:24] You have really seen technology change. I mean, you know, I've been building websites for a while, so remember what websites look like 15 years ago. So the fact that you were doing telehealth and that I mean, it was very cutting edge back then. And I'm sure you've seen technology evolve quite a bit in the years.

Michelle: [00:02:42] Absolutely. I mean, even just the access to high speed Internet is a game changer for so many people who want to access clinical services. But shockingly, even now, some students still don't have access. Sometimes we're using wireless hotspots to to deliver services. And that's certainly true in more rural areas of our country as well as in different countries. We're kind of being creative on how we can use technology to deliver services. Um, but yes, people are becoming more used to using and especially over COVID, more used to using technology for services, more familiar with the type of technology. And I think it's becoming accepted not only as this is what we had to do because we were all homebound, but this is really a phenomenal way to access highly specialized clinicians. So it's exciting to absolutely see the different uses and ways that technology can make a difference in our work lives in so many different ways, not just for direct services, but for workload management and thinking about how we can be really smart and strategic on how we use technology to. Help us. Well, in my case. Right. Reports. Yeah.

Heather: [00:04:06] Yeah. And so let's talk about that a little bit more workload management and reports. You know, obviously, as most people in the therapy business know, there are a lot of reports you guys are writing a lot. Um, and so talk about that a little bit. Kind of the early days when you were, you know, first started out and some of the things that you were going with and the struggles.

Michelle: [00:04:32] Well, right. So we diagnostic reports are an absolute essential part of our field. We need them. It kind of creates an entry point into those clinical services. If you're working in the school systems every three years, it's mandatory that we have to do reevaluations. We also get initial referrals from caregivers or teachers, and that those referrals are really increasing. We're seeing an increase in the amount of referrals, but not an increase in the amount of speech and language pathologists that are around to do the referrals. So evaluations take a lot of time and, and they should this we're we're gaining really essential information. And some researchers say that time is anywhere from 8 to 15 hours per evaluation. And so that takes up a lot of time. Yeah. Um, just as part of our job when we're also delivering services, going to meetings, collaborating with colleagues. And so personally, a couple of years ago, around 2008, I was really getting overwhelmed. I was having getting a lot of evaluation referrals and feeling incredibly burnt out, like to the point where I was really considering like another profession. I'm like, I could probably work at Starbucks and kind of get on well, be just fine. But it was that almost that desperation, like that feeling of being incredibly burnt out, incredibly overwhelmed. That forced me to think of another way, a better way of doing some of this, some of the work that we do, having to do with reports that are that's like busywork that takes a lot of manual like human our time to to do. And a lot of us when we do reports a lot of us have text based templates that we pull from people do this all the time.

Michelle: [00:06:52] When I talk to speech and language pathologists, some people are like, I have over 70 pages of all of my templates of different little blurbs for background information or observations of communication. Of course we have templates for different standardized tests that we do and a lot of time goes into searching for those templates that we need, copying and pasting those sections that we want, putting it into our new document, and then switching out name and preferred gender. That takes that takes a lot of time. That also creates errors when when in it's of course accidental errors. But just simply by doing human like that human manual work. We will end up with a wrong name and a paragraph or a gender that perhaps. You know, is inconsistent throughout our reports. Or the worst is when we have standardized tests and the scores and the tables don't match the descriptions or the scores in the write ups. Oh, yeah, that can be really embarrassing. It's unprofessional. It causes a lot of stress, a lot of anxiety. And so I looked to build a platform with my husband, who is a computer programmer, that eliminated all of that busywork. And that's what Easy Report Pro does. It is a library of dynamic templates that are for all of those different sections of a report that you can combine and build a full report template and it automatically has those auto population features in it and the auto score match. And so in a moment you can generate a really comprehensive customized draft with all of your information in there that typically would have taken probably an hour or two.

Heather: [00:08:50] Wow, that's great. And I love that mean because really I use templates in my business when I send out, you know, proposals or anything like that and just adjust them. Um, any time that we can have something templatized it's at least a starting jumping off place. And so I love that you saw that. You're like, I can't do this anymore. I'm not enjoying my work. How can I make work easier? How can I make work better? And so that I love what I'm doing? Because obviously, you know, for many therapists and like for you as an SLP being in your field, you did it because you had a love for working with your clients, not a love for filling out forms. There's no like, Hey, you want to be an SLP, let's fill out forms. Do you enjoy filling out forms? They should maybe ask that.

Michelle: [00:09:42] No, that's a great question. Yeah, there's a better way. Yeah.

Heather: [00:09:46] Yeah. And so and you discovering like figuring out like, okay, I have a problem, you know, what can I take from my experience? And then building on your husband's experience and what can I do to change that? And like you said then that's kind of how easy Report Pro, which is one which is one of your businesses was was born out of a need and for your sanity and then you end up saying, hey, how can I help other people in the business? Right? Yeah.

Michelle: [00:10:22] Absolutely. So when this was first when we first developed it. Yeah, right. It was just for me. And pretty quickly I realized the positive benefits at work, like as soon as I had access to this type of resource. And I love how you said it's kind of like that jumping off point. Um, I had more time to collaborate with my colleagues. I had more time to spend with my students. I was able to like give other additional resources to to people. So it made a real immediate impact in how involved I was. At work. And then. Right. And then. With that, we are like, okay, so what can we do now to to scale this, to make it really accessible for other speech and language pathologists or even other related service providers and are really functional, practical, easy to use way. So over COVID, we spent a lot of time really thinking about how we can bring the use of dynamic templates, customized dynamic templates to other speech and language pathologists. And we did it.

Heather: [00:11:42] I love that. I love that. And you know, you were talking about the amount of hours it takes to write a report and you know, now how long does it typically take you to create a report?

Michelle: [00:11:55] So I can create the draft. And so the draft is a pretty comprehensive, um, I would say 80% of the way completed report in about three minutes. That is a huge difference. Yeah. Then um, the so the platform generates that really comprehensive draft and, and then we just copy and paste it into a word processing system and you carry on as usual. So for me, what used to take several hours to write a report, I'm now doing it in about a half an hour, so more complex ones. I'll definitely spend a lot more time, like maybe 45 minutes to an hour. But what the other thing that I didn't realize like how important it is, the all of my drafts are error free. So I am starting. Not only am I starting off with about 80% of it done in a in a few minutes, I am confident that it's error free. I'm confident that I'm not using the wrong name or the wrong gender or my scores are wrong. So like that going through and like nitpicking of all of that, like of the refinement that used to have to happen when I use my old text based templates, that's eliminated as well.

Heather: [00:13:21] So yeah, and I love that because I actually, you know, I have kids and stuff like that have been an SLP, you know, speech therapy and I've actually received reports with the wrong name on it. Yes, it's 100% have had that happen. So I'm like, yep, it happens.

Michelle: [00:13:39] It happens. And it as a speech, as a pathologist, having that happen, it is the worst. So it's obviously terrible when. Parents get reports with the wrong name on it. But also I'm often in meetings where there's lawyers, there's advocates, there's administrators. And so. Having errors. Unintentional errors like in a report is mortifying. And being able to use a platform where that is eliminated is freeing. It is freeing. Yeah.

Heather: [00:14:13] Yeah. That's amazing. Um, so what? Um, you know, I want to talk a little bit more about templates. Like I guess the big takeaway for us is really step one at least start with templates, right? At least have your templates there. Step two is, you know, mean what could this do for like easy report pro? What could that do for, you know, um, a clinic that has multiple because I know that with a lot of them that are are insurance based they build in hours and they're like, okay you have so long to to create a report. And if you go over that time that's your that's your time, right?

Michelle: [00:14:52] So Easy Report pro saves people time and money really and right So a lot of clinicians have like one hour to write the report and then the rest of that time is non billable hours. So if you can use a platform that. Gives that allows you to create and write that report within the time that you're getting paid for. I mean, that's just an enormous benefit. You're not bringing work home. You're not feeling stressed. You're not feeling negative about, you know, having to write the report in the first place because you have the tools that you need to get it done in the time that you need to get it done. Yeah. Um. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Heather: [00:15:37] Um, so is there a way that they can try this out?

Michelle: [00:15:42] Absolutely. So clinics, um, speech and language pathologist clinics, if they go to report. Com. They can do the free trial and if they put in the code three free just from listening to this podcast, they'll get an additional three months free. Wow. Now I will say, yeah, it's, it's so exciting. And I will say we have clinics who love our templates and they're like, Fantastic. We have this wonderful library to start with, but we also really value our own templates. So a lot of people wonder, can they use their own resources in our platform? And the answer is absolutely yes. You can bring in your templates and using our. Productivity tools. You can make them dynamic, so you can put in the codes that you need to instantly have that auto populate feature, that auto score match feature. You can bring them into our outlines and combine their own, you know, your own customized templates with some of the resources we have in the platform. Mix and match. However, you know, however it works best and access everything through the platform.

Heather: [00:17:03] Wow. Yeah, that's that's great. And I love that they're able to not only try it out for 30 days, but then, you know, have three months free. Um, so, and I know that we were talking about some of the things as far as easy report pro as to where you're going in the future. Right now it's typically for SLPs and then, you know, industries that are very close like, but where are you, where is this going in the future?

Michelle: [00:17:29] Well. Oh, my gosh. So, right, Right now we have a pretty large library, over 800 resources for speech and language pathologists, but we are expanding to other related service providers. So occupational therapy, physical therapy, behavioral health. So whether that's behavioral analysts or psychologists or neuropsychologists vision therapists. Our our goal, our hope are is to have this available for people who work in in the allied health profession. So anybody who does diagnostic reports, diagnostic evaluations can absolutely utilize this type of platform.

Heather: [00:18:17] Yes. Yeah, that's great. Well, thank you so much for being on this episode. And like I said, you know what? When we first met, the big thing that really stuck out to me was your story and just how you, you know, had this problem where it was, I'm burnt out, I'm not enjoying my work, I'm not loving it. And then you created a solution and then shared it with everyone. So I love that. Um, and I think your resource is great. I think that it can help businesses. You want to talk about, you know, scaling your business and things like that, having a way to systematize things and make them into templates and things like that that are going to make work faster, are going to help you grow your business. And so that's what I, you know, I love about Easy Report Pro is that there you know you can be happier with your work you have more time you have time to collaborate, which I think was a great point. Um, because you know, if you don't take something as a business owner, we are so busy, we have so many hats we wear. And if you don't take something off your plate, then there's just absolutely no way to reach out to network to meet people. You're just kind of going through the motions all the time, right? Yeah. Um, so, yeah, so, you know, again, great. Um, like I said, it's a great product and I definitely check it out. Easy Report Pro and, you know, sign up for the free trial and the three months free. So the three was free. Yes. Yes. 

Heather: Um, again, thank you so much. And this is therapy Marketing solutions. Happy marketing, y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Elliot: [00:01:42] Hi Heather.

Heather: [00:01:45] I may accidentally call him like Babe or Jensen or Gents, which are all nicknames that I have for him. So it might be a struggle to actually say. Elliot to call you by like, your given name for me. Um, those are some.

Elliot: [00:01:59] Better names than what my kids call me, but okay.

Heather: [00:02:03] They call you father loving, wonderful provider, right? Yes. Um, okay, so let's talk SEO. So Elliot is working with therapy marketing solutions to provide SEO services to you guys, to our clients. So he is, you know, I know a lot about SEO to get me in trouble. I might know a little bit more than that, but but I definitely, you know, when I have SEO questions, he is my go to guy. So I thought what better than to have him on the podcast today? So let's talk about first what is SEO?

Speaker3: [00:02:46] Well.

Elliot: [00:02:48] Seo is an acronym, obviously, and it stands for search Engine optimization. And what does that mean in layman terms is you're trying to optimize your website. And when we say optimize, it means you're pretty much trying to make it the most presentable, user friendly, and especially most credible in comparison to your your other competitors out there. So there's multiple ways of doing that.

Heather: [00:03:19] Uh, so what are we optimizing our site for? Who are we optimizing our site like?

Elliot: [00:03:25] Okay, so we're optimizing our site for Google, Bing and other browsers. But let's talk about Google specifically Google. What they do is when they're looking for an optimized site is let's let's just use this as a web. So you have a web, a web browser, and they have what they call spiders. So these spiders are actually little bots. They go around and they crawl throughout the websites. So let's say somebody's going in. We just had this experience just now. You're going in, you're doing a search, right? So in the search and this happens instantaneously, this is like the speed of light. They go in and these crawlers will go through and try to find in an index what it is that the person was searching for. So in order for them to do that, they have they'll go through multiple pages and before they index find something that's indexable. So you have a brand new website, they're going to look and see if it's the content is credible, if it's exactly what they're looking for, if it meets certain categories like it's at the. If you have the right keywords that they're searching for, just it just goes on. There's there's lots of things to make it optimize. We could have a whole separate course for this, but that's the things that they're looking for and then it comes back and then they'll be able to index it. So basically, why is it important? Is that what you're going to ask next?

Heather: [00:05:06] Well, want to talk about. About some spiders. So let's talk about these spiders first. So one of the things so in in essence, Google is reading your website. It's reading the content on your website. I read somewhere that that Google spiders have about a sixth grade level of comprehension. And so you want to keep your website at a level that is understandable to a 12, 11, 12 year old. Um, so they read through your website, they read through all your content and based on what you have on your website, they decide if you are a good fit, that if you are going to be, um, you know, put on the list, so to speak, of, of websites, that is going to solve a problem. Because when we go into Google and we enter in search results, if we enter therapist near me, they're going to run through all the sites and they're going to decide which therapist are actually near my location. Um, and so one of the things, you know, there's several things that we can do to, like you said, optimize the site to make the site user friendly and, um, you know, presentable in comparison to what some of your competitors might be doing. I like a quote by Ruth Everett. She's a technical SEO analyst at Deepcrawl, and she says it's important to look beyond rankings and rather ensure a website is usable for everyone. So that's kind of the number one goal, is let's make sure that your website is usable. Let's make sure that your website that it makes sense, what services you provide. Um, those are some important, those are number one priority. And then maybe, you know, somewhere down the line we look at rankings and things like that. But if you are creating a good user experience, then you are going to have good SEO and at least a foundational.

Elliot: [00:07:12] So so let's backtrack on that a little bit though. So what you're getting at is SEO. Back in the days it was all about just the keywords and what they called keyword stuffing. So before Google, Google got smart and they have all these algorithms which are these spiders, and they got smart and realized that this is what a lot of people were doing. They were trying to beat the system. Let's go ahead and let's throw in all these keywords and just stuff them in. But it wasn't really pretty. So for the user like us going in, trying to search for something, it just didn't make any sense. Nothing made sense.

Heather: [00:07:42] Literally written for a computer.

Elliot: [00:07:44] It was written for a computer. But people rather than people. And we just we don't speak like that. So what you're driving at, Heather, is exactly what exactly what Google does now is they're looking more for content, um, rather than specific keywords, not not disregarding keywords. Keywords are still important because, because realistically, you're still somebody's going to type in a phrase or a keyword and it still has to match. But what we're trying to avoid is, is that stuffing. So essentially, I guess the rule of thumb is you're still going to want to put like 2 to 3 keywords within your content, but you still want to make it legible. You want to make it stand out. Yeah.

Heather: [00:08:26] So I tell people about keywords. It's it's not about finding keywords. It's about how you integrate the keywords in your content into the story of your mark, you know, like of your business into engaging with people. So how are you going to use those keywords and then engage with them.

Elliot: [00:08:48] Oh, exactly. So and like I said, the Google's gotten smarter. They're able to to realize. That something is going to be more legible so it's able to actually understand what the eyes are going to be, able to be able to stand, you know, words and phrases, sentences and things that make more sense rather than just a bunch of little short words that's, like you said, is made for a computer. So back to what we can start with. Now we know what it's important. How we can start is actually with the keywords. Um, that's one of the first things you want to do is you want to search as you're building this content. What keywords are your competitors using? What keywords are are hitting or getting the most searches? That's one of the first things you want to look at so that you can you can rank. And it's not just about like we mentioned, it's not just about ranking. It's about being the most credible source out there to find, you know, you're trying to help that person immediately find the information they need. And you want to be the most credible one in there. So it's kind of like I guess we can. Go ahead. There's that quote from Huffington Post.

Heather: [00:10:05] Yeah. Yeah. So why is SEO important? You know, um, in in the basic, most foundational way is because you want to be found, right? Having a website does not mean that anyone's going to find you. It's not. If you build it, they will come. It's not what happens with websites. Um, so you've got to do, you know, this is where SEO comes in. Seo drives traffic to your website. Once they get to your website, then you find great content that resonates with them. But. But why is it important? Huffington Post said the best place to hide a dead body is page two of Google search results. I love that because, I mean, just ask yourself, how often do you go to page two? So, you know, it's I think the big idea here is finding that balance. We can't say it's all about rankings, but we can't say it's not about rankings, too. Right. So we can't say that it's it's not about keywords because we need to use keywords. So it's finding that middle ground in your in your SEO strategy and not just saying. You know, I'm going to shove every word known to man in my website and then I'm going to you know, it's all about getting to number one in the search results and all of that. Because if you get there and then they if someone gets your they may go to your site and they may think your site is pure crud. Exactly. And they'll just leave. Um, so actually, when we were doing a little research right before we did this, we found a site that was it was not even readable. It was, you know, we were doing like some SEO sites and stuff like that. It was, it was not readable. And we were on there three seconds. We scrolled through it. We're like, This is just too much. I can't handle this. It was like content overload because they wanted to have more than X amount of words on a page, right? And so we left. So, you know, it's about finding that balance that is the big thing with SEO.

Elliot: [00:12:08] And that's what that's exactly a good point. It's what we're trying. That's why it's so important, is you're trying to avoid these situations that Heather and I just went into, which is called Bounce. So it's basically you're going in and you find it but you don't like it, so you're bouncing right out of it. You want to be able to continue with that click. So you want people to continue to click, so you want to have that click rate and see these are all terms that Google is using when they analyze is a click rate and a bounce rate. So in order to make your website more presentable and get up there in that in that ranking, you still want to get in that ranking. Um, these are the things you need to do. Um, building keywords around content so that it's more credible and presentable. Yeah. Guess the words you're looking for.

Heather: [00:12:54] So what are some easy things that they can do to get started? Number one is, is build a website. If you don't have a website yet, have a website. We're like, you know, at least a blog post. Just have yeah, so have a website. I'm just going to say have a website. Um, number two that Ella's been talking about is identify keywords. Um, and then number three is what are we going to do with the keywords?

Elliot: [00:13:26] Well, you're going to, you're going to go ahead and take those keywords. And compare them to the comparators to find out which ones are not really comparing comparators. But you can go into. The tools that can assist you to find out what keywords are getting the most hits, the most volume. So if Ubersuggest is one and as a disclaimer, I'm not pushing out to Ubersuggest. This is I'm not an affiliate with them, which is just a tool you can use. Ubersuggest is one of them. There's Ahrefs. They have some free tools as well. There's multiple tools you can go in to help you discover which keywords. And then when we say keywords, we're not just talking about one what they call as a short tail keyword. Like for instance, dog, you're not going to look for dog because if you look for dog, everybody, their dog literally is going to be on there. Right? But there's also long tail keywords, more like phrases. You can say dog collar, you're looking for a dog collar specifically. So these are these are the things you need to keep in mind as you're looking for these keywords. And it's important. It's a little hard when you already have a website and you're trying to build around keywords. Like Heather said, first let's build a website. You know what industry you're in, what you're doing here.

Elliot: [00:14:43] Obviously we're talking about therapists, so you're going to build your website and you're going to start looking for keywords around therapy. Or if you're specializing as a therapist, what kind of things are you specializing in? That's the very first step of SEO really is having that keyword building, that website. You can get into a lot of other things. There's a lot of other um, you go down some rabbit holes, go down rabbit holes, you can have courses, multiple things you can do. But this is the basic key thing to do to start with getting those keywords, building the content, mainly just having the content. Um, then as you're optimizing, you're going to have to go back in. It's, it takes six months to a year to actually. Even start ranking, you know, you're going to probably be in the second page. But if you want to move up in the first page and move up higher, it's a long term process, 6 to 12 months, something you'll have to look at weekly. It is time consuming. It's not rocket science. It's something anybody can dive into. There's a wealth of information out there on the Internet to assist, or you can come to like Heather and myself and we can assist you and help you out with that.

Heather: [00:15:49] So one of the things that we do with our clients is not just like, obviously we work with them to create, identify the keywords, to build content around those keywords on their home page and their about page and all those pages. But then once their site is done, then we work with like creating blog posts and, you know, using the keywords to then create blog posts. And one of the big things that I'm a huge proponent of in blog posts and you guys will find this if you go and start reading my blog, is that if you just answer the questions that they ask. You will. You will have great results, in my opinion, like start, like make a list. What are all the questions that people ask you? What are the FAQs? And then write blog posts on those. If you're, you know, like a speech therapy clinic and someone asks you what are the you know, what should I be looking for in my child to see if they have a speech delay, write a blog post on it. If you, you know, are a physical therapist and and you know what are three common reasons for for back pain write a blog post on it like because someone's going to look for why do I have back pain and then all of a sudden, guess what, your blog post is going to come up. So answer the questions. And I get this from, you know, this is not just like something that I just pulled out of nowhere, but they ask you answer. It's a book by Marcus Sheridan and incredible. He's had incredible results on his website and then ended up building like a whole, you know, digital agency as a result of answering the questions that they have because that's what people are going to go searching for.

Heather: [00:17:44] They may look for therapists near me, but more than likely like what Elliot was talking about when he talked about look for things that might not be quite as common. They might say, Hey, why? Why am I having migraines all the time? Why is this? Why is that so become the the the answer become the solution to their question. And and you will you will drive results to your site and increase business. Um, you know, obviously these things take time. There are a few things that we could go on and on about all the things you could do for your website, but absolutely, um, some, some fast things, some quick, some quick wins, I guess I should say. Maybe we should talk about some quick wins, make sure your images are optimized. And what I mean by that is that they are the right size for viewing. Make sure you have good hosting website hosting if you're hosting is. You know, your brothers, uncles, cousin, whatever, decided to offer you hosting? Beware. Because if you're hosting is slow, your website is slow. Guess what's going to increase your bounce rate? Bounce rate? Yep. Um, so just doing just a few of those little what are some other just really quick wins that you could say. Make sure there's no dead links on your website, right? That's another one. Meaning like a link that goes into oblivion, you know?

Elliot: [00:19:16] Yeah. The 4 or 3 links when you see three errors. Yeah, it's called. Yeah, it's.

Heather: [00:19:21] Called a four. What is it? Three errors. Yeah. 403 error. And that just means it's a dead link.

Elliot: [00:19:27] That's where you have to go in and redirect it. So again, that's where we can assist you. But like you said, you can just go down in a rabbit hole. There's so many things. But going back, the biggest thing obviously you have to have a website, keywords have to have keywords. And more importantly, I think that's what Heather is driving at, is just content. Make sure you build the content and the blogs and and be out there. You know, these blogs are to be linking back to your to your web page. Make sure you do that, link them back.

Heather: [00:19:59] So our challenge for you for this episode is just do one thing. Just just pick one thing. You know, like I said, you know, SEO can be overwhelming. It could you can go down rabbit holes easily. You can be like. It can be so overwhelming. You're like, Forget it. I don't care. Like, I get it. But just pick one thing. Just decide, you know, what if I just if I write a blog post once a month, like, you know, you don't have to like, this isn't something that you need to, like, dedicate your whole entire life to and decide that, you know, you need to carve out six hours a week or whatever it is. It's a slow process. I do have you know, I would say that the more you're building out, the faster your results are going to show. But doing something is going to benefit you in some way. And so actually, that goes to another quote. Julie Joyce, who's the owner of Link Fish Media. She says almost anything can be improved in some way. So make small, you know, like. Little changes on your website make small little changes. Add a blog, do this, do that, whatever. Just little tiny things will add more SEO. Oh, I have another quick one before we go. If you are a local, um, if you are a local business, meaning that you serve a local population. Put the areas that you serve on your site, put your city on your site, Just put your address, put your address on there, put your address on your site so that and you know, so that people can find you just that right there. Quick win. Make sure that your address is there. So any other parting words before we go, Elliot?

Elliot: [00:21:56] No, I think we've hit all the major points. Just what I think the biggest thing is, is when you build that website. Just make sure you have the right content, you know, make sure you know who your audience is and just write nice content. Make sure it's nice and clear. That's the biggest thing. Honestly, that's one major thing I've been noticing that Google is changing is it's becoming a lot more intelligent. I've said this already and I just want to emphasize it.

Heather: [00:22:29] So yeah. Content, content.

Elliot: [00:22:32] Content. Content. Content content. Exactly.

Heather: [00:22:35] Thank you, guys. Thanks so much, Elliot, for being on my being my surprise guest. Surprise in multiple ways. So not only was he a surprise to you, but it was a surprise to him, too. But thank you for being on this. And we will probably have him again. Maybe we'll give him, like, you know, a little bit more notice. But I just thought, you know, I'm doing a podcast on SEO. I should probably have an SEO expert with me to help me out. So there was one easily accessible. Um, so anyways, so again, you guys keep doing what you're doing, keep, you know, just small little shifts in your marketing make a difference. And I just want to leave by saying happy marketing, y'all. Until next time.

Elliot: [00:23:28] Bye.

HeatherH: [00:23:29] We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Sarah: [00:01:02] By having us.

Heather: [00:01:06] So let's just jump right into it. You have been in business for four and a half years, right? Yes. Yes. And then how long have you both been SLPs? Speech language pathologists before that?

Melissa: [00:01:22] I'm in my 20th year. I know it makes me sound old, but I used to be experienced. Yes.

Sarah: [00:01:30] And I'm in my 12th year. Yes.

Heather: [00:01:32]