Erin: [00:00:43] Feel more comfortable. I feel like you did that on purpose.

Heather: [00:00:46] Yes. It was intentional. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome, everyone. This is episode 14 of Therapy Marketing Solutions Setting up Client Expectations in Therapy. And today I am so excited about this, this conversation we're going to be having today. So I have Dr. Erin Behrens, who is a licensed clinical psychologist in Chicago with me. Welcome, Erin. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. I am excited to have you here. So I have to give a little bit of background information and how I met Erin. So I actually met found Erin on LinkedIn. I just saw her post and it resonated with me so much that I reached out and I was like, We need to have a conversation. I love what you put on there. So I want to tell you guys a little bit about because her post, like I said, it just really resonated with me. She said, I'm not a forever therapist. And right there I was like, What? Like it caught my attention and it said, Many clinicians start a therapy relationship with a new client with zero conversation about how they'll know the therapy is done. Maybe they assume that all their clients want to be in weekly therapy for years.

Heather: [00:02:12] But guess what? Therapy is expensive. Time is precious. Our clients don't want to disappoint us by breaking up with us. So they may continue in therapy longer than than needed. Out of obligation and another considerations. There are not enough therapists to meet client demand. So her solution was goal focused. Time limited therapy has many benefits and is preferable to many clients. Um, so I loved this post. Like I said, Erin, it just really resonated with me. It caught me my attention immediately when she said, I'm not a forever therapist. I was like, What? Like, wait a minute. Stop. Stop scrolling through my feed. Um, and I loved what you said because you hit on so many fantastic points about therapy and about not only client expectations and things like that, but also like from a standpoint of need that there is a shortage of therapists out there. So if we can, you know, help clients and then move forward, then you're able to help additional clients. So wow, wow, wow, wow. Thank you so much for posting that. I appreciate it. So before we really get into this topic, Erin, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about what you do.

Erin: [00:03:35] Yes, would be happy to. I am a you know, like you said, a licensed clinical psychologist. And I've actually been directing a clinical program of research in academia on how to treat PTSD and addiction for over a decade now. And now I'm really focusing more on helping community behavioral health organizations and mental health startups to design, implement and evaluate these time limited, evidence based behavioral interventions in their settings. So I got to the point in my career where I said, Look, we know a lot about what works for a lot of the clinical problems that I am interested in and have expertise in. And these interventions are just not reaching enough people. So that's really become my mission.

Heather: [00:04:23] I love that. And some of that came from past experience, correct? When you were working in in a setting in the past, right?

Erin: [00:04:34] Yes. So I one of my past positions was in a school of medicine and a Department of Pediatrics. And, you know, the way that psychologists often function in those settings is that we have a couple of different duties. So I was doing my program of research, and then I was also seeing patients through a teen and young adult primary health clinic. So I was their first psychologist they had ever had in their clinic. And so I really had this opportunity to work with them to figure out how do they bring psychology into their clinic. And what I realized right off the bat was that they had so many patients who needed behavioral health interventions. There was a lot of anxiety, depression, trauma, some substance use. And, you know, sometimes some other, you know, more unique presentations to they had a lot of need, as clinics still do today, probably even more so. So I just realized really quickly, this is not a place where I'm going to really be hanging on to patients for a long time. I need to figure out how to help as many patients, you know, reach clear goals as quickly as possible in some way.

Heather: [00:05:49] Yeah, I love that. So what does time limited behavioral health interventions and treatment look like?

Erin: [00:05:57] Yeah, it's a great question. So I do want to preface this by saying to, you know, I know there are a lot of different orientations to how clinicians approach therapy. They're all valid. We need diversity in what's being offered. So this is certainly not to disparage therapists who who treat clients for years and years. We need people like that who clients can go back and rely on, but we also need providers who can do this time limited behavioral intervention work. So the context for this work is often, you know, when you're in a setting where maybe you have limited opportunity to connect with a client or a patient, sometimes that can even be just like one interaction or it can be, you know, the kind of setting like I described, where you have maybe a short time to effect change. And so what this looks like is just really having a clear assessment process where you have an opportunity to understand as quickly as possible what the main challenges are that a patient or a client is facing and work with them to develop really clear, measurable goals and then implementing a strategy that's been proven to work for reaching those goals and measuring progress towards those goals. So, for example, when I was working in the primary care clinic, I would have a standard assessment battery to get at some of the main anxiety and depression kinds of symptoms that patients would report.

Erin: [00:07:27] Give them feedback on what I learned, you know, get their input on how did that resonate with them, and then work with them around developing a plan. So part of that work was always upfront letting patients and when appropriate, their parents know, this is how I operate. You know, I'm at time, you know, this is time limited therapy. I can work with you for a few months on a weekly basis to reach these goals. And if you would still like to have some supportive counseling or other long term therapy afterwards, I'm happy to help refer you out to a provider that has that orientation. And so it was really uncommon that a patient would not like that approach and would say more often than not, with that teen population, they're really excited with the idea of not being in therapy forever. So it was typically the parents who wanted their kids connected a little longer. The teens themselves were like, Great, let's take care of this so I can get back to to school, to my friends, to my activities. Um, but that's just sort of one example. I think there are a number of settings where this kind of work can happen.

Heather: [00:08:34] Yeah. One of the things that I really love that you said, and even just in our past conversations, is that you talked about this like creating expectations with the client. And so you guys are working as a team. There's kind of this collaboration like, how can we work together? How can I assist you in your journey, which I think is empowering?

Erin: [00:08:58] Absolutely. And I think, you know, we really have an obligation to be really clear with our clients on what work we're doing with them and why. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've met with a client or a patient who has had prior therapy experiences and would tell me they had no idea what their therapist had been doing with them, or they would say, Oh, I don't know. I would just go in and talk about whatever was going on that week. And so that leaves the patient with this sense, too, of I don't know if what I'm doing is helping me. I don't see any change. So, you know, it really gives a chance to, like you said, empower the client to be an active participant in their care and then we can look together as a team. Are we are we reaching your goals? However, we've defined those. And if we're not, that might mean we need to do something differently. So I see it as constantly a work in progress and it holds me accountable too. Yeah.

Heather: [00:09:56] I actually just met with a client yesterday. One of my clients, and who's a therapist, and she said, You know, typically we do 20 sessions and obviously the number can change based on your practice and things like that. And she's like, But I also tell them if they don't feel like they're seeing something within 3 to 7 sessions, maybe we're not a good fit with one another. Maybe we need to review this Like, and I loved that she had this kind of these benchmarks where she was like, let's assess. Let's make sure that we're on the right path before we get, you know, six months, a year, whatever in. And we're like, what are we doing here?

Erin: [00:10:34] Yes. Yes. It sounds like that client would get along great.

Heather: [00:10:39] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a I loved that she and she puts it out there for people like, you know, right away immediately. So I think communicating that to potential clients is important as well beforehand because one of the things you said is, you know, often clients don't want to be in therapy forever. There's also the benefit that you're able to help more people. So there's so many benefits to having time limited goal oriented therapy.

Erin: [00:11:12] Yes, I agree completely. And it really, you know, I think it requires us as a therapist or the provider to sort of check our ego. We have to be willing to look at those outcomes data with our clients and to be able to feel comfortable to acknowledge if what we're doing isn't helping them as much as it could. So, you know, it's not always easy to get in the practice of doing it for that reason alone.

Heather: [00:11:39] Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things I want to ask about is how do you know that treatment has been successful? Like what are some things process wise or measurement tools? And we don't have to get into specific measurement tools, but just things that you use to assess success.

Erin: [00:12:00] Yes, that's a great question. So I think, you know, it really you know, like you said, it depends on sort of what the client's goals are. And so the more that you practice doing this measurement, you kind of build up sort of a library of brief measures that you can apply to different problems. You know, as a PhD psychologist, I am really symptom focused compared to some other types of providers. So that's kind of where I am. I feel most comfortable providing value to clients. So I use a lot of brief symptom checklists as a way to see if the client is improving. So I'll give you one example from some of my work that I've done is sort of designing a brief PTSD or post traumatic stress disorder intervention to fit within a residential addiction treatment program in the community. So we ultimately ended up knowing that we would have only three weeks to interface with the clients in this residential program. The first week, they were often getting through withdrawal symptoms. They were going through the onboarding and intake process just to get acclimated to the program. So we functionally had about three weeks to intervene with them. And so I ended up sort of modifying a gold standard PTSD intervention to really kind of cut down to some of the core ingredients.

Erin: [00:13:29] Based on my read of the literature and my experience with the intervention. And so we implemented this a couple times a week with these patients. And so in order to see if it was working, what we did was we gave a PTSD symptom checklist at the beginning of treatment and then at the end of the three week period just to see what was happening with their symptoms. And so the clients were telling us that they felt like they were getting better, but then we were able to also see how much better were they getting on that checklist. And we ended up seeing about a 65% reduction in their symptoms over that three week period. And so without having that measurement, I wouldn't really feel comfortable or confident recommending that modified approach to another provider to use. So I think that kind of gets at my point of like working with the time that you have. If you've only got three weeks, get the biggest bang for your buck in that three weeks and then make sure that you're measuring change so that you can tweak your approach if you need to.

Heather: [00:14:31] Yeah. And I know that a lot of what you you do is very evidence based. And then like, you know, like you said, measurement based where you're, you're finding ways to, to measure therapy, to measure progress, to measure even just, you know, overall, I guess, compatibility between clients and you.

Erin: [00:14:53] Yeah. And I think there are other you know, I, you know, again, I'm like really biased towards the symptom inventories just because of my sort of orientation. But you know I think as long as you're able to get an objective definition of what it is you're trying to change, it doesn't have to be only the symptom inventory. So, for example, you might be working with a patient and their goal is to, you know, be more social or develop stronger relationships. And so you can really work with the client to say, well, what what would that look like for you? How would you quantify, you know, sort of the the quality and quantity of relationships that you're trying to build? So you can you know, you can work with your patients in those instances to to come up with with your own metrics, but just to be able to be working towards something specific I think is really important. If you're trying to do this time. Limited intervention approach.

Heather: [00:15:45] Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Where they're, you know, helping to create the metrics that that they, you know, kind of look at success for. So even if it's like, well, what does being more social look like? Does that mean that you text five people this week or go out to dinner with someone or whatever that is their success? Looks like there's some way to measure it. And so instead, like when they come back the next week and and you might say, well, how did it go? You know, they'd be like, Good. Well, now all of a sudden you have something to be like, you know, almost like homework or something. Yeah, Yeah. Like, well, give me more, Tell me more. And so you're able to break that down and then work towards it. As I was doing a little bit of research for this topic, one of the things that, you know, that I read that really stood out to me was this idea of of when not only when you set goals as a clinician, but then when the client is able to be a part of those goals that they feel more successful in therapy as well. Yeah, it's clear, definable, you know, in goal as to what therapy is going to look like, what we're working towards and when therapy's over or you know, when there's an exit to therapy.

Erin: [00:17:04] Yes, absolutely. They definitely should be an active participant in setting those goals. But then also, like we shouldn't be hoarding information on their progress, you know, So I, I, you know, really value taking the opportunity every couple of weeks even to share progress with with clients. And I'm super nerdy and data driven and so I have to turn this into like little graphs, like I'll print a graph of clients progress. Here's where we started, here's where we are now. Look at how far you've come. Look at how much work you've put in. How are you feeling about where you are now? You don't want to forget that qualitative piece too. But what I've also noticed is, you know, people who have been struggling with their emotional health for a long time, they're a little hesitant sometimes to give themselves like props for what they've done and what they've accomplished. So it really can help establish trust with your client, too. It's not I'm not just telling you what you want to hear. I'm not just another person saying, Oh, you're doing great, you're going to be fine. I'm showing you this is what you told me about how you're feeling and how you're doing. I'm just reporting that back to you. So I think it can really help to build some self-efficacy for the clients, really build trust in the process and the relationship and just, you know, again, just be like an objective little metric on on how they're doing.

Heather: [00:18:25] Yeah, I love that. And again, it's that empowerment and that ability for them. Like you said, they don't often want to give themselves the pat on the back or whatever. Um, so they have. I don't it just it builds confidence. I would assume that that looking at that those little those reports and kind of seeing the metrics and be like, wow, okay, I started here and now I'm there, you know, there's going to be this confidence in themselves that that they're going to start to feel. Yeah. Through therapy.

Erin: [00:18:56] Yeah. And they may decide, you know, we've reached this point now I have some additional goals I want to work towards. Like now I see what's happened here. I want to do a little bit more. That's okay. That's great. Um, but yeah, you just need, need some tool to to give that feedback.

Heather: [00:19:10] Yeah. Okay. So I always like to leave a takeaway or a challenge to anyone who is listening to this. So what, what could be their takeaway or their challenge? What could be, you know, something that they could do to that they can bring into therapy?

Erin: [00:19:29] Yeah, I would say just to, you know, again, like I'd like to be really open to the idea that we as therapists approach our work differently. Not everyone's doing short term therapy. Not everyone is using the kinds of interventions I am. And that's okay. That's great. I would just ask people to consider how they, as a provider conceptualize meaningful change and how they engage their clients in that process. So just being really mindful to think about do I have measures in place to demonstrate progress with my clients? However, we are conceptualizing that together. And I would be really thrilled if people, you know, reached out and shared with me how they're doing this. I always love to hear from people, um, sort of on how they, they approach these different challenges. So.

Heather: [00:20:21] Yeah. I think one of the other things that we discussed, too, is that if they if they're if it makes sense for them to look for some kind of assessment tools that they can use to incorporate within therapy. Obviously, that's if it makes sense in their their business model and their practice and the kind of therapy that they are offering. But, you know, don't feel like you have to reinvent the wheel to like you don't have to create your own metrics. If something's already out there that fits or just needs to be adjusted to what you're already doing, then definitely, you know, Google the tools that you're looking for or start doing some research or ask other therapists to find what assessment tools they're using that have worked well with their clients.

Erin: [00:21:07] Absolutely. I think that's a great point, is not only is it a lot of work to reinvent the wheel, but we're not going to reinvent it as well as the person who's dedicated their life to creating symptom checklists. It's a very special area of expertise. And so I like to leave that to the measurement experts and then sort of use their tools that they've developed and tested and validated. So yeah, that's a great point is asking around. You know, there are a lot of resources online. The NIH has inventories and checklists that people can look at. You know, I think there are a lot of places to find these tools. And then once you've got them, you've got them. So, yeah, thinking about, you know, what kind of change are you pursuing with your clients and your practice and what are the existing measures out there to capture it?

Heather: [00:21:59] Yes. So, um, tell me a little bit more about what you're doing in your business. I'd love to hear about what? What's next for you?

Erin: [00:22:11] Yes, I'm really focusing on applying what I've learned in sort of my researcher life. Feel like I'm giving a bad answer. I'm going to give a pause now and have to cough.

Heather: [00:22:33] I'm going to ask that question again.

Erin: [00:22:35] Okay. Thank you.

Heather: [00:22:40] Okay, so what tell me about what's next for you. What are you working on right now in your in your business?

Erin: [00:22:49] Yeah. So what I'm doing now is really using the experience I've developed over the last dozen years or so to work with community behavioral health organizations and digital startups to help them design, implement and test evidence based behavioral health interventions. So I really am aiming to invest my skills where I can have the most impact, which I think is really helping providers and organizations that are on the front lines doing this tough work.

Heather: [00:23:23] I love that.

[00:23:25] So if you're interested in reaching out to Erin, I know she'd love to hear about what you're doing in your practice. And if you have any kind of, you know, quantitative tools that you're using or what assessment tools you're using in your practice, you can definitely reach out to her on LinkedIn and we'll actually have that link for your LinkedIn in the podcast. So notes. So check it out. Thank you so very much. I have enjoyed this. I love learning about what other people are doing in their businesses, how they are finding success and then, you know, just how they're helping their clients to feel successful. So again, thank you very much for being on this episode. Erin Thank you. It's been my pleasure. Um, and this is another episode of Therapy Marketing Solutions. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:24:24] We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:01:42] So when you're creating content for your About Us page, you want to ensure that everything ties back to how you solve their problem. Everything, whether it be your bio, whether it be an introduction, like a couple paragraphs about your business. How is it solving their problem? And want to dig into this a little bit more. Let's unpack this. So what does that mean? So if we're creating the About Us page and we are working what I typically tell clients to do and when I write content for them is that top portion of the About Us page. So you've got your header on the top and then that next section we typically will talk about their problem. We we highlight the problem that they are facing because the truth of the matter is that no matter what anyone buys, no matter what service they start using, they do it for one purpose only, and that is to solve their problem. So you need to be solving their problem in everything that you do say and highlight. You know, like every part of your business, every part of your marketing needs to be talking about the problem that you solve. And you could say like right now, but I saw lots of problems. And that's true. Um, you know, I run a marketing business. I solve lots of problems. We do lead generators, we do websites, we do, um, you know, email campaigns, so on and so forth.

Heather: [00:03:23] But the overall problem that I solve is that it's not even just that I help people with their marketing. It's really that I help businesses grow. And I do that by helping them fill their schedules, by helping to drive more traffic to their websites so that they can then have more leads. So that's the real problem that I solve. It's not helping marketing. It's let me help you bring more people into your website. Onto, you know, filling out your contact form into calling you into scheduling an appointment with you so that you know, and it's the same for your business. So you have to think about it in that sense. You may offer a variety of services, but what is the problem that you solve? What is that overarching problem that you solve and that's what you want to be talking about on your about page. So like I said, that first paragraph, first like section, not just paragraph. You want to talk about your client's problem and then you want to talk about how your practice uniquely solves it. So this is your opportunity to differentiate from your competitors, whether that be that you in the customer service that you provide or in the systems that you use in in whatever it is. Just as a quick example, my kid's orthodontist, he uses a particular.

Heather: [00:05:01] My method of working with children and braces. So. For him. This is his opportunity to say, Hey, I use the blank system or the blank method to, you know, help them. And we don't want to get too much into the weeds. We don't want to get too technical. So make sure you're not doing that. But, you know, discussing that you do something different or you have a different approach or, you know, is is an opportunity for you to differentiate yourself. But keep in mind, always keeping in mind that you are still talking about your client's problem. And everything that you write you need to say is this tying back to how I solve their problem? And then afterwards you really want to describe what life looks like afterwards. So you've highlighted their problem. You've talked about how your practice uniquely solves it, and then you paint a picture of what life looks like afterwards after working with you. Um, so we've got that section. The next section typically is a lot of businesses will, will, you know, put their bios on there. And it is important to have bios. I think it is because it gives them the opportunity to get to know you without actually having to interface with you. So they get a little sneak peek again, though, just saying, Hey, I went to school at this university and I got this degree and I, you know, specialize in ABC.

Heather: [00:06:50] That's cool.

Heather: [00:06:52] That's cool. But and it's important, you know, you I mean, heck, you went to school. That's, you know, and got a degree that's going to help them. So it is important, but it's not important to just list it off. It's not like a grocery list, like did this, did that. We want to make sure that it doesn't feel like a grocery list, that you're just listing off all of your qualifications. Instead, let's talk about why you went to school so you could say something like, um. Uh, I helped a client write a bio one time, and she was a speech language pathologist, and her interest in speech language pathology came about as a result of her own speech impediment with the speech struggles that she had. So that was really interesting because it was it was interesting for them. They could the clients could resonate with that. They're like, oh, my child has a speech problem. Oh, their speech therapist used to struggle with, you know, with saying certain sounds. Um, so it was, it was an interesting bio because we literally started with, you know, as a child I struggled with speech sounds and my interests, you know, the interest came, um, in, in speech as a result of attending speech myself. And so it also built this empathy level, this level of empathy where you're like. My therapist. You know, my speech language pathologist gets me. We want to be careful, though, to not, you know, obviously air out all of your your baggage or your luggage or whatever to like. Let's not. Like paint this this story, but we can do it in a way that we can carefully do it. So So we don't want to be like. I don't I'm trying not to be I'm trying to give an example that. But we definitely don't want to be like.

Heather: [00:08:59] Well, you.

Heather: [00:09:00] Know, like I guess the example is we don't want to be like a country song, okay? So we don't want to be like, my truck broke down, my wife left me and my dog died. Okay. So let's not give that. That's the only example, the best example that I can give. So let's avoid the country song bio and. But, you know, you have an opportunity to to talk about your why to do it in a way that highlights your education and but shows that you're passionate about what you do and passionate about helping them. So again, it's going to tie back into helping them that, you know, as a child you struggled with speech and. You know, it made you feel bad. You sometimes you struggled with confidence as a result. And so you really want to help children, which which gave you an interest, let's say that it allowed you to become interested or you became interested in helping others as a result. You see how like much this just so much more intriguing, it's they want to get to know you. They're like, Oh, I know a little bit about you. That also has something to do about us and how you solve their problem. So let's talk about like, what if you have nothing? Like what if there was nothing to do? Like, um, you didn't have a speech impediment or you didn't have speech struggles, articulation problems. And and so that's not why you became a speech pathologist. It could just be something like, I took a class, like I've had another client who really be became interested in audiology because of a project that they did and their, um.

Heather: [00:11:01] In their undergrad studies. And that led to just this deep passion for for hearing. So that could it could be as simple as that because, again, it is tying something tying part of your story with their story, but it's doing it in a way that says, I want to help you. I'm passionate about helping you. Um, and here's kind of my why behind it. Okay, so. Um. You know, I think that. I love what Donald Miller says, He says. Donald Miller from Storybrand says, When I make the about us about you, it makes you want to do business with me. I'm like, Oh, okay, you guys, that is amazing. So when you make your about us, about your clients, they want to do business with you because all of a sudden they realize you want to help them. You have their best interests at heart. You are passionate about them. It really removes the barrier of just talking about yourself and creating. I mean, why do we why do we have businesses, especially allied health professionals, you know, therapy businesses. You guys are passionate about helping other people. You really every. You know, in all of the services you offer, it's about improving someone's life, whether that be through hearing aids, you know, someone who struggles with hearing and providing them with hearing solutions, whether that be with counseling and helping them have some, you know, moments of self-discovery and enlightenment or teaching them, you know, giving them some coping techniques.

Heather: [00:13:09] You are helping them. So why wouldn't your About us page and even. Your website and your marketing and your business be about them, right? Um, anyway, so this is the big idea I want to leave you guys about your about page is not about your business. It's not about you. It is about your clients and how you help them. So the challenge for this week, what I want to leave you with is I want you to go and review your about page. And to revise it accordingly, Change it to to be about the problem that your client is facing and how you help them solve it. And then I want you to see what difference it makes, see if it's, you know, you can do that through obviously tracking like Google Analytics and stuff like that. See if they spend more time on your About Us page and see if it really makes a difference, see if someone says something about it. But I guarantee that if your About Us page is about your clients, they are going to be more excited to work with you. And that's all guys for this episode. I wish you the best of luck in writing and revising your About Us page. Happy marketing y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Lauren: [00:01:04] Hi. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Heather: [00:01:07] Yeah, I am excited to have you. So to tell all of you guys and to give you a little intro, Lauren has actually worked with my business. She has helped me with some of my onboarding and offboarding. And just like as we go through processes with clients. So I'm a big fan of Lauren's and and she's actually matched me with my VA, who I absolutely love. So so yeah, so I can't say enough good things about Lauren and that's why I wanted to have her on today. Because when you have a process, when you have a system in your clinic, um, things just flow easier. You're not having to like have all this head space for all the things that are missing. You're able to create more and you're able to, to better serve your clients. Um, so, Lauren, I want to start off really with jumping right in and telling me or telling us really a little bit about your business.

Lauren: [00:02:12] Yeah. Systems to scale. We actually officially launched with what we do kind of in the formality since the beginning of 2021. So it hasn't been really long, but it's really incredible how much we have grown in this last year, just seeing the missing piece kind of in the marketplace because we are twofold. We are I am a systems strategy coach and consultant that helps business owners really automate and be more productive and set up their systems and processes. But also we are a virtual assistant agency because really in order to scale the six and seven figures, you have to get your systems and processes in order and delegate and offload all of the operations side of your business so that you can serve clients, so that you can be the face to your brand, so that you can get out there and do the things that only you can do and allow somebody else who's skilled in those areas to really take over all of that. Plus, it helps us in our energy levels, you know, where we don't have to constantly be like dragging about all the things we don't necessarily want to do, and it's distracting us from the things we really need to be focused on and have the energy for.

Heather: [00:03:16] I love that you said that because with a lot of therapists, a lot of individuals who are in the therapy field, burnout is a major problem. Yeah, it is a huge problem. I mean, I could say probably it's a problem across, you know, all businesses in some way, shape or form. But burnout is a really big problem because they are handling so much, especially as business owners. Um, they are, you know, I mean, when you're a business owner, you have to wear a lot of hats and then at the same time they're seeing clients, typically a lot of them are still seeing clients, so they've got a full load. So I love that you say that, you know, by creating systems, by recruiting the help, you are able to have more, you know, energy and to have more capacity to to think outside the box and to think really about your your business, It actually creates an opportunity to have a vision. Could you guys imagine that having the time to like have a vision about where you want your business to go? That's that's amazing. So I really love that you, um, you say that. So what are some of the services you said that you offer VA and then really that you come in and look into all of their systems and do like a thorough analysis, correct?

Lauren: [00:04:39] Yeah. So we work mainly in the operations side of any person's business. Kind of like what you would have a CO come in and do. However, we we offer the strategy, the, the coaching, the consulting because a lot of times you'll get an admin who can work in your business, but they're not going to be systems minded. And so we can take what you've done all along and we can refine it and make it better and simplify it and make it easier for someone else to manage and oversee that side of your business. And so we do do that coaching and consulting. I also offer just strategy sessions. If somebody wants to walk through and say, Hey, I'm really struggling, like what are my next steps in in bringing a client in or starting a new project or onboarding a client and saying, Hey, it's time to go, But I still want them to think of me when they need my services again, those kind of things. I can just jump on a call and help offer a strategy for you as well. But we do have a team that's very skilled in all the different areas, like CRM workflows, project management boards, many of the digital tools that we use to create these processes and systems that will help do some implementation as well.

Lauren: [00:05:42] So we offer that. And then of course, I have one of my superpowers is my sixth sense to match people to that are really going to help partner with them in their business because it's not just about skills and tasks, but it really is about finding someone who can be a long term partner with your business. You don't want someone who's just there to put in the hours, but you want someone who is really going to care about your business. And work alongside it and help grow and develop it. When I brought in team members to help me in my business, I recognized my business became stronger not just because they were doing work, but because they had so much more to offer ideas and new things to do and a different set of eyes than my eyes alone. Alongside that. And so I really love to see people get partnered up and find a virtual assistant who could be a project manager, who could be a social media manager, who could do lots of different things remotely for you, but can really be a long term partner in your business.

Heather: [00:06:34] Yeah, Yeah. And I love that, you know, you do the consulting and things like that because the problem with a lot of businesses is that we don't know what we don't know. We don't know where the gaps are. We think we have a process. We think everything looks good. And unless you've been on that other side as the actual client, sometimes you don't see all of the gaps. And whereas you, you know, are working with multiple businesses and so you can kind of take your experience with working with all these different businesses and say, Hey, I noticed a gap here. Like, what can we do here? Let's create a system here. Let's do some, you know, standard operating procedures, SOPs, so that whoever is here is going to be able to have success. And I also love that. Um, so there's a quote that I it says it's by W Edwards Deming, who's a leading management thinker in the field of quality, and he says, put a good person in a bad system and the bad system wins no contest. And that was like all the, you know, the sirens and the bells and the whistles all went off for me. And it's like, it's true. If you don't have a good system in place, you could have a person who is so excited to work with you who wants to do, but they will fail because they don't know. They're not inside your brain.

Heather: [00:07:57] They don't know what you know, and you're trying to impart all of your knowledge out of your brain. Takes a lot. So, um. So matching people who can, you know, first create the system and then matching someone who can really come in and improve, you know, not only run the system, but then offer advice and thoughts. And that's one of the things that I really love about my VA is that, you know, she's great at being like, Hey, what would you think if we did that? And I'm like, Fantastic. Because I don't again, I don't know what I'm missing. I don't know where the gaps are all the time. Um, yeah, that's great. So it often feels like you're like a horse with blinders on where you're like, you know, you need someone to have that other like to be able to see the other perspectives. So, um, so for therapy businesses, what are some of the, the processes and systems that, that you feel like they should have in place? Um, I know we had, we kind of discussed this like, you know, possibly like some kind of intake process for when someone first, um, clicks the button on their website. So let's talk about that in a little bit more. Um, so. You know, once they click the button on their website, obviously that has to do something. It has to trigger some event, Right?

Lauren: [00:09:25] Right? Yep. And I think a lot of times that is one of the big missing pieces when it comes to processes is we see leads fall through. I know in a therapy business you don't want to necessarily say lead, but but a prospect that's going to come into your clinic and use your services, you really don't want them to fall through the cracks. You want them to feel like and especially in this kind of high touch industry where someone needs to feel valued and loved and listened to and all of those things, you want them to feel like, hey, they matter and they're important. And our human nature tells us if something happens, if we go and fill out a form and we don't ever hear back that we are not important, right? That we might as well not waste our time on that. And so making sure that whatever you have set up on your website, your forms are working correctly, is like a huge part of that process and that system and checking that regularly because we all know technology can fall through and we need to to be able to evaluate and inspect consistently whether that's once a month or quarterly. Having that as part of your process. But where does that go? What happens next? You send an automated email. That's typically what happens, right? Somebody fills out a form, there's an automated email that goes to their inbox that explains more about their services, maybe asks them to set up a call or to come in and schedule an appointment, maybe directs them to something that's going to explain more about their services.

Lauren: [00:10:44] But what if that person never responds? Right? Do we have a continuation of that follow up process? Because you know what? Sometimes email ends up in junk or spam or sometimes it gets missed and overloaded by a bunch of other things. Or again, sometimes technology just doesn't work. And so we need to make sure we have a consistent process of how many days are we waiting on this Before we follow up, are we only following up via email? Do we have a process in place to collect their phone numbers that we could call them and give them a call and direct them that way? Do we add them to our Lead Nurture series? If some point they decide that they're not ready to move forward at this point? Well, we still want to be top of mind, right? So there's all these little pieces that you could add into that, like onboarding process or that that lead prospect process of being able to bring them in because, you know, statistics tell us and I don't know, you might know more about the therapy business specifically, but online business in general is that sometimes it can take six plus months for someone to actually buy into your services and choose to move forward with that. And so they need to be reminded. We're all bombarded with so many different things, right? They need to be reminded of who you are and what you can offer to them before they decide to move forward in that way.

Heather: [00:11:56] Yeah, and I love that you said, you know, especially in the therapy business, I have all therapists, all those in allied health services, so allied health professionals, audiologists, whatever they they became or they entered that profession, I guess I should say, because they cared about people. They really care about people. And so having your system, your intake process in place allows you to continue to show that you are caring about people. It may be automated, but there are ways that we can do it to make sure that they are consistently feeling taken care of. And that is a huge way of taking care, of making people feel like they are valued, take care of them along the whole process. Um, so another area is really once they start working together with the client and in this area, you know, for me is what I tell a lot of my clients therapy clients is, you know, just make sure that you're touching, you're over overcommunicating with them, make sure that they know where they are in the process. If there is something like, for example, a speech language pathologist do reports for them every so often and say, here's where we are. These are the sounds that your child is working on. This is where we're going to be next. This is where, you know, like you can, um, support your child, stuff like that. Like people will eat it up and they will love that. So no matter what industry in within like therapy that you're in, find ways that you can overcommunicate to them. Yeah.

Lauren: [00:13:45] Think it's all about managing expectations, right? Is everybody's going to walk in with expectations, whether it's the accurate expectations or you're on the same page as somebody else. And if you can on the front end, tell people what to expect, then they can't be disappointed. They can't come back and say, well, this didn't meet my expectations and I was upset about this. And so really communicating to such a part, to such a distinction that it almost feels annoying that you've said it so much. Right. Because we all know we get emails, we don't read them. We listen to we have to hear it multiple times. I mean, think about your children. How many times do you have to tell them the same thing over and over again to get them to do it? And then sometimes I have to remind myself, well, I guess sometimes I have to be told the same thing over and over again to to remind myself to do it and managing those expectations and then also anticipating their questions. And a good exercise you can do in creating a great process for this is every time you're on a call with a client or you have a session with a client, literally just record the questions that they ask. If you get an email from a client record, the questions that they ask, and then you can look back and look through those and say, okay, well, what kind of questions are these? Are these ones that are managing their expectations or what's coming next? Or or what should I do when how can I communicate this in a way that they don't even have to ask the question? And we're really answering that for them in advance?

Heather: [00:15:08] Yes, I love that. I love that. So take notes Any time anyone has any question about your business, the process, you know, billing any of that, write them all down. And I actually have done a couple of times where I've done an exercise where I just start like writing anything anyone would want to know about my profession or how I can help them. For me, I've been creating like blog posts and things like that content so that they can find those answers. But I love that you can create processes out of those too, to say, okay, so a common question that I get is, you know, how often will I be billed? And so then you make sure that you have something for them, whether that be an email, a handout or just, you know, discussing it, hey, your bill comes a 15th of every month or whatever that is. So take those questions, create processes out of them. And then the last area where I feel like a lot of businesses really forget, I mean, even within my own business, I really wanted to create this amazing onboarding and I thought about it, but I because I was so busy with the other two areas, I didn't have the time for this. So after you start working with after you have worked with a client, what are some things that we can do as far as like onboarding them?

Lauren: [00:16:36] Yeah, well, think one again. It's managing those expectations, so it's delivering to them in a communicative way. Here's what we've done and here's what I recommend the next steps are for you. And if it's something you can offer, that's great, go ahead and upsell them. I know this is you know, we're talking about therapy, but but this is selling your services. So go ahead and upsell them on what the next step is so that you can help them the way that they need help. If not, finding having resources at your fingertips of where you could send them next along in that in that process. I think the other thing is, is a lot of times even in therapy clinics and in that type of industry and service, when you're serving a client, it might be for a season and then they come back later. Right? There's something else that that kind of disrupts them and they need another season to kind of go through that. And so again, you want to be constantly reaching out to them, reminding them of the things that you've worked through is a great way to do this is just, you know, having a timed reminder at a certain point, whether it's six weeks later saying, Hey, I just wanted to check in and see how you were doing and make sure that this is still going good.

Lauren: [00:17:43] Or how have you been doing in this particular area that we had worked through and were discussing and kind of managing that, but having that consistent process where you're checking in, not annoyingly, okay, you don't want to be sending an email every week for six months, but spacing out your timing in order to do that and then just delivering special things, right? Whether that's a handwritten note thanking them for using you or allowing you to be a part of their process, putting that in there and sending that out at the end. Or sometimes people have like offboarding gifts that they give their clients or they have, you know, they lead them to an email series that's perfectly timed, that walks along something that relates to them, those kind of things. And so thinking through what are what are all of the opportunities I have to continue to touch these clients to have high touch opportunities to communicate with them and allow them to be remain in my circle of, you know, just warm leads to just show up and be available when they need me again.

Heather: [00:18:42] Yes. Yeah, I love that. And I love the idea of giving little gifts and things like that. Um, I've worked with, you know, a speech language pathologist who who worked with kids who were thumb suckers. And so they gave them a little trophy when they were done. That's awesome. Their thumb. That's a great idea. Just kind of say, hey, let's let's have a moment. Let's congratulate you where you're at. And it's those like again, back to those touch points and that human interaction and you're making them feel valued. And not only that, but it does another thing. So not only like may they come back, but they're also going to be raving fans and they're going to tell everyone about you because they're going to be like, Hey, guess what? You know, so and so. She's the most amazing therapist and she's done these things for me or, you know, John, he was my physical therapist and really helped me after my my knee operation or just whatever it is. Um, so I know that actually bringing up physical therapists, my kids, a couple of my kids have done physical therapists and they get assured at the end they still wear them. They wear in to school like amazing advertising for that therapist. Um. So. But I know that it can feel like a lot of work. I know that it can feel a little bit frightening to change things. So Klaus Schwab, who is an engineer, an economist and a founder of the World Economic Forum, said change can be frightening and the temptation is often to resist it. But change almost always provides opportunities to learn new things, to rethink tired processes and to improve the way we work. And I think that's one of the thing is if you're going to create a system or a process, then you need to buy into it, right? You know, take a very good look at it, analyze it, and then buy into it and say, this is what we are going to do until we decide that we need to improve it. This is our system.

Speaker3: [00:20:50] Right?

Lauren: [00:20:51] Yeah. And I think a system is only as good as the people who are operating it. So we have to recognize that as we are and as businesses are constantly in a state of evolvement and change and development, so are our systems. And so recognizing that, hey, if we can get these things really clear and take away the complexity, take away the overwhelming nature, start to make it habitual, you know, I usually tell a business owner, you just start somewhere and you start somewhere small, and that could be as simple as taking 10 or 15 minutes at the beginning and the end of your day to just refine the way you're doing with things and looking into your system. Or, you know, one of the biggest things that that business owners struggle with and working with me is starting to use a project management tool if they haven't already. And it's that habit of getting things out of your head, off of scratch pieces of paper and making sure it's in that tool so that your whole team is communicated with. And so it's just taking little chunks and starting to do that on a small basis until it becomes habitual. But we all know as adults, right, building habits are hard, they're really hard, and sometimes we fail and we just have to keep picking ourselves up. And so if we are committed to doing something and making sure it works, it's just showing up and continuing to work in that and then allowing ourselves the grace to recognize, well, maybe there's a reason this isn't working and we need to evolve it and tweak it and refine it as our business grows and evolves in that way as well.

Heather: [00:22:16] Yeah, definitely. Now, I know one of the things we kind of discussed before we jumped on this podcast is a common misconception, and I want to I want to talk about that for just a half a second. You know, because creating a system or a process is, is a habit because, you know, sometimes people kind of push back on it and they feel like it. It's changed all of a sudden. They're not flexible anymore and their business and they're not offering a custom, you know, solution to their client. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that and talk about that a little bit more.

Lauren: [00:22:53] Yeah. As people focused entrepreneurs and business owners, we want to serve people right? And it's really hard for us sometimes to to meet people and hear about what they're doing and want to serve them with where we're passionate and to say, well, they don't really fit in. And so sometimes we feel like if we have this structure and these benchmarks in place and these processes and these systems, that it's going to keep us from the flexibility of being able to serve people and being able to change what we offer them or being able to change our prices or, you know, that's a big one, is well, sometimes I just want to not charge as much, even though I need to make this amount of money. Sometimes I just want to serve this one person. Well, that's okay. If you have the systems and processes in place that actually makes it easier to do that, it doesn't make it more difficult because think about your schedule in your day. If you have blocks where you're getting the important things done in your day and your week, then you have free time. That's flexible for you to say, Okay, well, for me, I work from home sometimes with my four kids and sometimes they're just having a hard day.

Lauren: [00:23:53] And I have to say, okay, it's time to close my computer and it's time to just give them some one on one attention while I have the freedom to do that. If I have the habits and the system in place to get the things done that need to be done and not end up like twiddling my thumbs and wasting my time. And that's the same thing with when we serve clients. If we have the benchmarks and the major tables that we need to serve them in these areas, it allows us the freedom and the opportunity then to come in and to serve them in additional ways or to add an extra deliverable or to to come in and do something above and beyond what we normally do, or to change our prices or to serve them for free. Right. All of those things in that flexibility and the customized approach we want to have for our clients can be offered. The more systems and processes we have in place allows for the more freedom of that.

Heather: [00:24:42] Yeah, Yeah. And one other thing is that customers and clients, clients love systems, they love processes because again, they're not falling through the cracks. They know that they're being taken care of every step of the way. They. Every step of the way has been anticipated, too. And so that's, you know, as another plug for processes and systems. I would just say just that you're actually serving your clients better because of it for sure. So. Well, I like to leave, you know, at the end of the podcast kind of a takeaway. So or maybe a challenge. So what would be your takeaway or challenge for, you know, clinics and practices?

Lauren: [00:25:26] Yeah. So if you're at a place in your business and you really don't have a plan of where you want to be in five years, that would be my major challenge is to discover what direction you want to head because there's lots of different places as you grow and develop. Some people just want to stay where they are and they're great and that's a great place to be. Well then you can develop your systems and processes based around that. But if you decide, Hey, I want a franchise and I want to have clinics in all different locations and I want to be able to empower different therapists to own different clinics and all of these things, then that's going to change the way that you approach your systems and processes, the way that you hire onto your team. And so I would challenge you to really take some time and dive deep, like in five years. What kind of work do you want to be doing? Where do you see your business growing and your clinic looking like and how can you start moving towards the right systems and processes in order to get there?

Heather: [00:26:18] Yeah, I love that. You know, Donald Miller talks about that often, looking at, you know, forecasting your life, creating that vision and then reverse engineering it. And that's really what you're doing is if you look at five years from now and you say, hey, this is where I want to be, maybe I want to have a couple locations open, maybe I just want to grow my one location from the 1 or 2 therapists to ten therapists, whatever that is. Well, now all of a sudden you have a plan and then you can ask yourself, How am I going to get there? What steps do I need to take to get there? How do I need to change my business? How do I need to grow my business in order to get to that place? So I think that's that's a really great challenge. So I would just suggest, you know, just even take like 15 minutes. It doesn't have to be a lot of time and just start writing, just start, you know, think about where your business can be in five years and just start writing. And I think it'll be exciting for you. And it might be eye opening, too, right? Right. So, well, thank you so much, Lauren, for being on this podcast. So, you know, I again think your work is amazing and I feel like it has helped me in my business grow so much and I'm able to take on more things and move my business forward where I felt like before I was a little bit, you know, just kind of floundering or plateauing. So what are some things that are going on in your business? Tell us a little bit about some services and things in your business.

Lauren: [00:27:54] Yeah, One of our main exciting offerings that we have going on right now is called 60 Day Systems to Scale. And what we do here is we take 60 days, we perform a business systems audit with a business owner, and we take those 60 days and we set up the five main business foundational systems in your business, and that's your email management, your file organization, your team communication, your project management and your workflows, which is a lot like we talked about those processes that you would take clients through and we get those super clean and organized. We add to them, we automate them, we create the SOPs, and then we help you outsource that. If that's the stage that you're in. If not, we help you take off that extra time that you've been doing those things in manually so that you can relax and not have to focus as much on the operations. And so I would love to offer that to any of the listeners here. I can have a special discount available to you if you reach out and let me know that you are interested in our 60 day systems to scale. And you heard me here on this blog, I will offer a discount for you there. And you can you can hear from me at hello at systems scale.org. Shoot me an email and tell me all about your business. I would love to hear more about it.

Heather: [00:29:04] Thank you so much again, guys, this is your call. This is your wake up call. Get your systems and processes in order. It's going to free up time. It's going to make you happier in your business as a business owner. And that's just kind of the parting words that I want to leave for you. And with that being said, happy marketing, y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Heather: [00:01:40] I can't tell you how many websites I have been on that lack a call to action. So we are going to break it down today. I'm going to give you some tips on how to use call to actions placement. You know, all the things about call to actions so that you understand and of course, you know, create some challenges for you and challenge you guys. So if, like I said, if there's nothing else you get out of this episode, have a call to action. You know, I can drop the mic and walk away at this point. Right. So let's dig into it. Right. So call to action. Call to action, you know, can be a variety of things. Um, really, what you're doing is you're calling someone to take a specific action to fill out an intake form or request more information, sign up for your newsletter or download something. Et cetera. Et cetera. Right. It's like I said, it is getting someone to take an action. Well, why is it important? Why is action important? Well, Pablo Picasso sums it up really well. He says action is the foundational key to success. So getting someone to take an action is the foundational key to your business's success. I'm not saying it's the only key, but it is a foundational key. It is at the foundation of your marketing.

Heather: [00:03:12] So if you do not ask someone to take a specific action, they sometimes won't. People like knowing what the next thing is. A call to action creates clarity in that. Um, so there's two different kinds of call to actions. And for today's episode, we're really going to focus on the call to action button. Uh, so there's two different kinds though, of call to actions. One is the direct call to action, and the other one is a transitional call to action. A direct call to action is. For all intents and purposes, the thing that you want someone to do when they are on your website. I I've done a lot of reviews, website reviews and things like that. And I tell people often like if you're called to action is not clear, is not consistent and is not noticeable, then people might miss it. They're not going to know how to get started with you. And that's ultimately the whole entire goal of your website, is to give them enough information that they want to start with you, that they want to take the next step in the relationship. That's all you're doing, the whole entire website. Get them to take the next step. So by using powerful call to actions, that's what we're doing. So Ray Edward Edwards, he is literally like the godfather of copywriting and sells.

Heather: [00:04:47] He, in his book How to Write Copy that sells. He says this is one of the areas where copy tends to often be the weakest, the response request. You should not be shy about making this request. You should tell the customer exactly what to do in order to get your program, your consulting, your book, etcetera. Completed done. You know, and in his code obviously he says program consulting book. But for you guys a lot of business owners it's in order to get them to schedule an appointment. So a direct call to action is the one thing you want them to do on your website to get them to take the next step in working with you. And now let's talk about transitional call to action. I just want to touch on this lightly. A transitional call to action is really what it sounds like, a transition. It is less commitment and it's a way to it's almost like a baby step, like direct call to action. Take the full step. A transitional call to action. What's that little baby step you want them to take? That might be subscribed to your lead generator. Sign up for our newsletter. Um. You know, download an episode or a video or whatever it is, it is typically in exchange for an email address. So all you're asking for is an email address.

Heather: [00:06:26] Um, I say all you're asking, but I know that's a big ask. Um, so that transitional call to action, you need to make sure that what you are exchanging and we're going to go more into lead generators in another episode but that you are asking for their email in exchange for some kind of valuable piece of content. Every business is different and it really depends on who your client is, your ideal client. So knowing who they are will help you to create a lead generator that. That they want, that they want that they're excited about. And so that's transitional call to action is is part of that lead generation tool. So back to direct call to actions, I just wanted to kind of touch on the transitional call to action, just to let you guys know that there are two different types. But I want to get back to the direct call to action. And we are going to get into some tips for today. Uh, so just a couple of things. Keep it consistent. So what does that mean? Keep it consistent? Well, your call to action should be the same on everything. I mean, occasionally, like I said, if there's a transitional call to action, it's going to be different. But if you're using a direct call to action, whether you are on social media, in an email, on your website, your Google ads, your SEO, if you add like a call to action to them, it needs to be the same.

Heather: [00:08:03] The reason behind that is when you are consistent. People understand what you want them to do. It always goes back to understanding make it simple and make it easy. Um, and that kind of the next tip goes along with that. Keep it clear. Cleverness is. The. The master of the king of confusion. So if you have to decide between clever or clear. Always pick clear. When it comes to call to action, there are ways to have a call to action. You know, be different, be unique with and still be clear. Um, in fact, I've got a freebie today that you can download and it has, you know, several different call to actions that aren't the same. So it's not just book an appointment or schedule an appointment or schedule a consultation. So, um. But but, you know, is is unique and can be unique to your brand. So hopefully, even if you don't use the ones that I have in the freebie, it'll get you thinking about a clear call to action that you can consistently use on your website. So the next thing that I see so many people miss out on is make it noticeable. Don't make it hard to find your call to action. Should be if you're looking at a you know on a desktop, desktop computer should be in the top right corner of your navigation.

Heather: [00:09:51] Um, that top portion where all your pages are listed, it should be a bright color, so it should stand out in your navigation. You know, you can have the other things like service about and then have your call to action where everyone can see it. The your prospects eyes should be drawn to it. Another really important place is where people miss out on is having a call to action in that top header portion where the images or the video or whatever put a button there too, and then I want you to put a button in at least every other section of that page. So if you've got on the top, if you've got this beautiful image and it says, um, physical therapy in Ohio and below that, um, I mean, obviously we could talk about, you know, better titles than just physical therapy in Ohio. Um, but below that, have your call to action button and then you have another section which might talk about some of the services and below that have a call to action in that next section. And then you have maybe some testimonials and then the next section, guess what? Call to action. So your call to action should be on your page.

Heather: [00:11:19] And it kind of depends on the length of the page, but it should be on the page at least 3 to 5 times on one page and do it for every page. Every page needs a call to action button. And the last tip really is, is to make sure that your direct call to action is actually direct. Don't make it passive. The language learn more is is very passive. It is ambiguous. What do you want me to learn more about? Um, it's kind of making the the prospect take that leap as to trying to read your mind. Well, I assume they want me to read more or learn more about their services or whatever. So. So just make sure that it is. It's very direct as to that next step. Start now. Get started. Um, you know, schedule an appointment. Call us. Schedule a consultation. Book a consultation. All of those are direct in what they want your prospect to do next. So keep it consistent, keep it clear, make make it noticeable and make it direct. Those are the four things that need to happen with your call to action, you know, and then of course, be strategic in, in what you're called to action is and the placement of it make sure it makes sense. And that's what I really mean by strategic is just make sure it makes sense to to the average viewer of a website.

Heather: [00:13:16] So as you guys know, we always end each episode with a challenge. So here's your challenge, pretty simple this week. Number one, review your call to action. Um, obviously, if you don't have one, create one, create a call to action and then add it all over your website. Add it all over, um, add it all over your marketing. So side note on that is that if you're doing social media, don't add it to every post. People that just chafes just isn't right, you know? But add it to every fourth or fifth social media post. Um, and, and that's kind of it, you guys. So by doing this you are going to make it clear exactly what you want them to do. What the next step in working with your business is. Um, and you'll see results. It's an easy, a relatively easy fix for your business that will help you see results. So make sure that you are getting prospects and clients to take action by using call to actions. Happy marketing you all. Thanks so much. See you next episode. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Michelle: [00:01:09] Hi, Thank you. Welcome. I am very excited to be here.

Heather: [00:01:13] Yes, Thank you so much. So Michelle, how long have you been an SLP?

Michelle: [00:01:19] So I started practicing in about 20, about 2008. My background is as a school based speech and language pathologist and very early in my career, I really fell in love with the use of technology and how we can use technology to deliver effective services. Um, I live in Massachusetts in a very rural area of the state, and a lot of kids were not receiving the services that they needed. So way back then, before it was even cool, I started looking at Telepractice and how we could use technology specifically Telepractice to deliver direct services. Subsequently, I went on to get my PhD and really focused on the use of Telepractice specifically for students with autism and quickly fell in love with how technology could be used for other things such as workload management. And that kind of brings me to my current project.

Heather: [00:02:24] You have really seen technology change. I mean, you know, I've been building websites for a while, so remember what websites look like 15 years ago. So the fact that you were doing telehealth and that I mean, it was very cutting edge back then. And I'm sure you've seen technology evolve quite a bit in the years.

Michelle: [00:02:42] Absolutely. I mean, even just the access to high speed Internet is a game changer for so many people who want to access clinical services. But shockingly, even now, some students still don't have access. Sometimes we're using wireless hotspots to to deliver services. And that's certainly true in more rural areas of our country as well as in different countries. We're kind of being creative on how we can use technology to deliver services. Um, but yes, people are becoming more used to using and especially over COVID, more used to using technology for services, more familiar with the type of technology. And I think it's becoming accepted not only as this is what we had to do because we were all homebound, but this is really a phenomenal way to access highly specialized clinicians. So it's exciting to absolutely see the different uses and ways that technology can make a difference in our work lives in so many different ways, not just for direct services, but for workload management and thinking about how we can be really smart and strategic on how we use technology to. Help us. Well, in my case. Right. Reports. Yeah.

Heather: [00:04:06] Yeah. And so let's talk about that a little bit more workload management and reports. You know, obviously, as most people in the therapy business know, there are a lot of reports you guys are writing a lot. Um, and so talk about that a little bit. Kind of the early days when you were, you know, first started out and some of the things that you were going with and the struggles.

Michelle: [00:04:32] Well, right. So we diagnostic reports are an absolute essential part of our field. We need them. It kind of creates an entry point into those clinical services. If you're working in the school systems every three years, it's mandatory that we have to do reevaluations. We also get initial referrals from caregivers or teachers, and that those referrals are really increasing. We're seeing an increase in the amount of referrals, but not an increase in the amount of speech and language pathologists that are around to do the referrals. So evaluations take a lot of time and, and they should this we're we're gaining really essential information. And some researchers say that time is anywhere from 8 to 15 hours per evaluation. And so that takes up a lot of time. Yeah. Um, just as part of our job when we're also delivering services, going to meetings, collaborating with colleagues. And so personally, a couple of years ago, around 2008, I was really getting overwhelmed. I was having getting a lot of evaluation referrals and feeling incredibly burnt out, like to the point where I was really considering like another profession. I'm like, I could probably work at Starbucks and kind of get on well, be just fine. But it was that almost that desperation, like that feeling of being incredibly burnt out, incredibly overwhelmed. That forced me to think of another way, a better way of doing some of this, some of the work that we do, having to do with reports that are that's like busywork that takes a lot of manual like human our time to to do. And a lot of us when we do reports a lot of us have text based templates that we pull from people do this all the time.

Michelle: [00:06:52] When I talk to speech and language pathologists, some people are like, I have over 70 pages of all of my templates of different little blurbs for background information or observations of communication. Of course we have templates for different standardized tests that we do and a lot of time goes into searching for those templates that we need, copying and pasting those sections that we want, putting it into our new document, and then switching out name and preferred gender. That takes that takes a lot of time. That also creates errors when when in it's of course accidental errors. But just simply by doing human like that human manual work. We will end up with a wrong name and a paragraph or a gender that perhaps. You know, is inconsistent throughout our reports. Or the worst is when we have standardized tests and the scores and the tables don't match the descriptions or the scores in the write ups. Oh, yeah, that can be really embarrassing. It's unprofessional. It causes a lot of stress, a lot of anxiety. And so I looked to build a platform with my husband, who is a computer programmer, that eliminated all of that busywork. And that's what Easy Report Pro does. It is a library of dynamic templates that are for all of those different sections of a report that you can combine and build a full report template and it automatically has those auto population features in it and the auto score match. And so in a moment you can generate a really comprehensive customized draft with all of your information in there that typically would have taken probably an hour or two.

Heather: [00:08:50] Wow, that's great. And I love that mean because really I use templates in my business when I send out, you know, proposals or anything like that and just adjust them. Um, any time that we can have something templatized it's at least a starting jumping off place. And so I love that you saw that. You're like, I can't do this anymore. I'm not enjoying my work. How can I make work easier? How can I make work better? And so that I love what I'm doing? Because obviously, you know, for many therapists and like for you as an SLP being in your field, you did it because you had a love for working with your clients, not a love for filling out forms. There's no like, Hey, you want to be an SLP, let's fill out forms. Do you enjoy filling out forms? They should maybe ask that.

Michelle: [00:09:42] No, that's a great question. Yeah, there's a better way. Yeah.

Heather: [00:09:46] Yeah. And so and you discovering like figuring out like, okay, I have a problem, you know, what can I take from my experience? And then building on your husband's experience and what can I do to change that? And like you said then that's kind of how easy Report Pro, which is one which is one of your businesses was was born out of a need and for your sanity and then you end up saying, hey, how can I help other people in the business? Right? Yeah.

Michelle: [00:10:22] Absolutely. So when this was first when we first developed it. Yeah, right. It was just for me. And pretty quickly I realized the positive benefits at work, like as soon as I had access to this type of resource. And I love how you said it's kind of like that jumping off point. Um, I had more time to collaborate with my colleagues. I had more time to spend with my students. I was able to like give other additional resources to to people. So it made a real immediate impact in how involved I was. At work. And then. Right. And then. With that, we are like, okay, so what can we do now to to scale this, to make it really accessible for other speech and language pathologists or even other related service providers and are really functional, practical, easy to use way. So over COVID, we spent a lot of time really thinking about how we can bring the use of dynamic templates, customized dynamic templates to other speech and language pathologists. And we did it.

Heather: [00:11:42] I love that. I love that. And you know, you were talking about the amount of hours it takes to write a report and you know, now how long does it typically take you to create a report?

Michelle: [00:11:55] So I can create the draft. And so the draft is a pretty comprehensive, um, I would say 80% of the way completed report in about three minutes. That is a huge difference. Yeah. Then um, the so the platform generates that really comprehensive draft and, and then we just copy and paste it into a word processing system and you carry on as usual. So for me, what used to take several hours to write a report, I'm now doing it in about a half an hour, so more complex ones. I'll definitely spend a lot more time, like maybe 45 minutes to an hour. But what the other thing that I didn't realize like how important it is, the all of my drafts are error free. So I am starting. Not only am I starting off with about 80% of it done in a in a few minutes, I am confident that it's error free. I'm confident that I'm not using the wrong name or the wrong gender or my scores are wrong. So like that going through and like nitpicking of all of that, like of the refinement that used to have to happen when I use my old text based templates, that's eliminated as well.

Heather: [00:13:21] So yeah, and I love that because I actually, you know, I have kids and stuff like that have been an SLP, you know, speech therapy and I've actually received reports with the wrong name on it. Yes, it's 100% have had that happen. So I'm like, yep, it happens.

Michelle: [00:13:39] It happens. And it as a speech, as a pathologist, having that happen, it is the worst. So it's obviously terrible when. Parents get reports with the wrong name on it. But also I'm often in meetings where there's lawyers, there's advocates, there's administrators. And so. Having errors. Unintentional errors like in a report is mortifying. And being able to use a platform where that is eliminated is freeing. It is freeing. Yeah.

Heather: [00:14:13] Yeah. That's amazing. Um, so what? Um, you know, I want to talk a little bit more about templates. Like I guess the big takeaway for us is really step one at least start with templates, right? At least have your templates there. Step two is, you know, mean what could this do for like easy report pro? What could that do for, you know, um, a clinic that has multiple because I know that with a lot of them that are are insurance based they build in hours and they're like, okay you have so long to to create a report. And if you go over that time that's your that's your time, right?

Michelle: [00:14:52] So Easy Report pro saves people time and money really and right So a lot of clinicians have like one hour to write the report and then the rest of that time is non billable hours. So if you can use a platform that. Gives that allows you to create and write that report within the time that you're getting paid for. I mean, that's just an enormous benefit. You're not bringing work home. You're not feeling stressed. You're not feeling negative about, you know, having to write the report in the first place because you have the tools that you need to get it done in the time that you need to get it done. Yeah. Um. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Heather: [00:15:37] Um, so is there a way that they can try this out?

Michelle: [00:15:42] Absolutely. So clinics, um, speech and language pathologist clinics, if they go to report. Com. They can do the free trial and if they put in the code three free just from listening to this podcast, they'll get an additional three months free. Wow. Now I will say, yeah, it's, it's so exciting. And I will say we have clinics who love our templates and they're like, Fantastic. We have this wonderful library to start with, but we also really value our own templates. So a lot of people wonder, can they use their own resources in our platform? And the answer is absolutely yes. You can bring in your templates and using our. Productivity tools. You can make them dynamic, so you can put in the codes that you need to instantly have that auto populate feature, that auto score match feature. You can bring them into our outlines and combine their own, you know, your own customized templates with some of the resources we have in the platform. Mix and match. However, you know, however it works best and access everything through the platform.

Heather: [00:17:03] Wow. Yeah, that's that's great. And I love that they're able to not only try it out for 30 days, but then, you know, have three months free. Um, so, and I know that we were talking about some of the things as far as easy report pro as to where you're going in the future. Right now it's typically for SLPs and then, you know, industries that are very close like, but where are you, where is this going in the future?

Michelle: [00:17:29] Well. Oh, my gosh. So, right, Right now we have a pretty large library, over 800 resources for speech and language pathologists, but we are expanding to other related service providers. So occupational therapy, physical therapy, behavioral health. So whether that's behavioral analysts or psychologists or neuropsychologists vision therapists. Our our goal, our hope are is to have this available for people who work in in the allied health profession. So anybody who does diagnostic reports, diagnostic evaluations can absolutely utilize this type of platform.

Heather: [00:18:17] Yes. Yeah, that's great. Well, thank you so much for being on this episode. And like I said, you know what? When we first met, the big thing that really stuck out to me was your story and just how you, you know, had this problem where it was, I'm burnt out, I'm not enjoying my work, I'm not loving it. And then you created a solution and then shared it with everyone. So I love that. Um, and I think your resource is great. I think that it can help businesses. You want to talk about, you know, scaling your business and things like that, having a way to systematize things and make them into templates and things like that that are going to make work faster, are going to help you grow your business. And so that's what I, you know, I love about Easy Report Pro is that there you know you can be happier with your work you have more time you have time to collaborate, which I think was a great point. Um, because you know, if you don't take something as a business owner, we are so busy, we have so many hats we wear. And if you don't take something off your plate, then there's just absolutely no way to reach out to network to meet people. You're just kind of going through the motions all the time, right? Yeah. Um, so, yeah, so, you know, again, great. Um, like I said, it's a great product and I definitely check it out. Easy Report Pro and, you know, sign up for the free trial and the three months free. So the three was free. Yes. Yes. 

Heather: Um, again, thank you so much. And this is therapy Marketing solutions. Happy marketing, y'all. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Elliot: [00:01:42] Hi Heather.

Heather: [00:01:45] I may accidentally call him like Babe or Jensen or Gents, which are all nicknames that I have for him. So it might be a struggle to actually say. Elliot to call you by like, your given name for me. Um, those are some.

Elliot: [00:01:59] Better names than what my kids call me, but okay.

Heather: [00:02:03] They call you father loving, wonderful provider, right? Yes. Um, okay, so let's talk SEO. So Elliot is working with therapy marketing solutions to provide SEO services to you guys, to our clients. So he is, you know, I know a lot about SEO to get me in trouble. I might know a little bit more than that, but but I definitely, you know, when I have SEO questions, he is my go to guy. So I thought what better than to have him on the podcast today? So let's talk about first what is SEO?

Speaker3: [00:02:46] Well.

Elliot: [00:02:48] Seo is an acronym, obviously, and it stands for search Engine optimization. And what does that mean in layman terms is you're trying to optimize your website. And when we say optimize, it means you're pretty much trying to make it the most presentable, user friendly, and especially most credible in comparison to your your other competitors out there. So there's multiple ways of doing that.

Heather: [00:03:19] Uh, so what are we optimizing our site for? Who are we optimizing our site like?

Elliot: [00:03:25] Okay, so we're optimizing our site for Google, Bing and other browsers. But let's talk about Google specifically Google. What they do is when they're looking for an optimized site is let's let's just use this as a web. So you have a web, a web browser, and they have what they call spiders. So these spiders are actually little bots. They go around and they crawl throughout the websites. So let's say somebody's going in. We just had this experience just now. You're going in, you're doing a search, right? So in the search and this happens instantaneously, this is like the speed of light. They go in and these crawlers will go through and try to find in an index what it is that the person was searching for. So in order for them to do that, they have they'll go through multiple pages and before they index find something that's indexable. So you have a brand new website, they're going to look and see if it's the content is credible, if it's exactly what they're looking for, if it meets certain categories like it's at the. If you have the right keywords that they're searching for, just it just goes on. There's there's lots of things to make it optimize. We could have a whole separate course for this, but that's the things that they're looking for and then it comes back and then they'll be able to index it. So basically, why is it important? Is that what you're going to ask next?

Heather: [00:05:06] Well, want to talk about. About some spiders. So let's talk about these spiders first. So one of the things so in in essence, Google is reading your website. It's reading the content on your website. I read somewhere that that Google spiders have about a sixth grade level of comprehension. And so you want to keep your website at a level that is understandable to a 12, 11, 12 year old. Um, so they read through your website, they read through all your content and based on what you have on your website, they decide if you are a good fit, that if you are going to be, um, you know, put on the list, so to speak, of, of websites, that is going to solve a problem. Because when we go into Google and we enter in search results, if we enter therapist near me, they're going to run through all the sites and they're going to decide which therapist are actually near my location. Um, and so one of the things, you know, there's several things that we can do to, like you said, optimize the site to make the site user friendly and, um, you know, presentable in comparison to what some of your competitors might be doing. I like a quote by Ruth Everett. She's a technical SEO analyst at Deepcrawl, and she says it's important to look beyond rankings and rather ensure a website is usable for everyone. So that's kind of the number one goal, is let's make sure that your website is usable. Let's make sure that your website that it makes sense, what services you provide. Um, those are some important, those are number one priority. And then maybe, you know, somewhere down the line we look at rankings and things like that. But if you are creating a good user experience, then you are going to have good SEO and at least a foundational.

Elliot: [00:07:12] So so let's backtrack on that a little bit though. So what you're getting at is SEO. Back in the days it was all about just the keywords and what they called keyword stuffing. So before Google, Google got smart and they have all these algorithms which are these spiders, and they got smart and realized that this is what a lot of people were doing. They were trying to beat the system. Let's go ahead and let's throw in all these keywords and just stuff them in. But it wasn't really pretty. So for the user like us going in, trying to search for something, it just didn't make any sense. Nothing made sense.

Heather: [00:07:42] Literally written for a computer.

Elliot: [00:07:44] It was written for a computer. But people rather than people. And we just we don't speak like that. So what you're driving at, Heather, is exactly what exactly what Google does now is they're looking more for content, um, rather than specific keywords, not not disregarding keywords. Keywords are still important because, because realistically, you're still somebody's going to type in a phrase or a keyword and it still has to match. But what we're trying to avoid is, is that stuffing. So essentially, I guess the rule of thumb is you're still going to want to put like 2 to 3 keywords within your content, but you still want to make it legible. You want to make it stand out. Yeah.

Heather: [00:08:26] So I tell people about keywords. It's it's not about finding keywords. It's about how you integrate the keywords in your content into the story of your mark, you know, like of your business into engaging with people. So how are you going to use those keywords and then engage with them.

Elliot: [00:08:48] Oh, exactly. So and like I said, the Google's gotten smarter. They're able to to realize. That something is going to be more legible so it's able to actually understand what the eyes are going to be, able to be able to stand, you know, words and phrases, sentences and things that make more sense rather than just a bunch of little short words that's, like you said, is made for a computer. So back to what we can start with. Now we know what it's important. How we can start is actually with the keywords. Um, that's one of the first things you want to do is you want to search as you're building this content. What keywords are your competitors using? What keywords are are hitting or getting the most searches? That's one of the first things you want to look at so that you can you can rank. And it's not just about like we mentioned, it's not just about ranking. It's about being the most credible source out there to find, you know, you're trying to help that person immediately find the information they need. And you want to be the most credible one in there. So it's kind of like I guess we can. Go ahead. There's that quote from Huffington Post.

Heather: [00:10:05] Yeah. Yeah. So why is SEO important? You know, um, in in the basic, most foundational way is because you want to be found, right? Having a website does not mean that anyone's going to find you. It's not. If you build it, they will come. It's not what happens with websites. Um, so you've got to do, you know, this is where SEO comes in. Seo drives traffic to your website. Once they get to your website, then you find great content that resonates with them. But. But why is it important? Huffington Post said the best place to hide a dead body is page two of Google search results. I love that because, I mean, just ask yourself, how often do you go to page two? So, you know, it's I think the big idea here is finding that balance. We can't say it's all about rankings, but we can't say it's not about rankings, too. Right. So we can't say that it's it's not about keywords because we need to use keywords. So it's finding that middle ground in your in your SEO strategy and not just saying. You know, I'm going to shove every word known to man in my website and then I'm going to you know, it's all about getting to number one in the search results and all of that. Because if you get there and then they if someone gets your they may go to your site and they may think your site is pure crud. Exactly. And they'll just leave. Um, so actually, when we were doing a little research right before we did this, we found a site that was it was not even readable. It was, you know, we were doing like some SEO sites and stuff like that. It was, it was not readable. And we were on there three seconds. We scrolled through it. We're like, This is just too much. I can't handle this. It was like content overload because they wanted to have more than X amount of words on a page, right? And so we left. So, you know, it's about finding that balance that is the big thing with SEO.

Elliot: [00:12:08] And that's what that's exactly a good point. It's what we're trying. That's why it's so important, is you're trying to avoid these situations that Heather and I just went into, which is called Bounce. So it's basically you're going in and you find it but you don't like it, so you're bouncing right out of it. You want to be able to continue with that click. So you want people to continue to click, so you want to have that click rate and see these are all terms that Google is using when they analyze is a click rate and a bounce rate. So in order to make your website more presentable and get up there in that in that ranking, you still want to get in that ranking. Um, these are the things you need to do. Um, building keywords around content so that it's more credible and presentable. Yeah. Guess the words you're looking for.

Heather: [00:12:54] So what are some easy things that they can do to get started? Number one is, is build a website. If you don't have a website yet, have a website. We're like, you know, at least a blog post. Just have yeah, so have a website. I'm just going to say have a website. Um, number two that Ella's been talking about is identify keywords. Um, and then number three is what are we going to do with the keywords?

Elliot: [00:13:26] Well, you're going to, you're going to go ahead and take those keywords. And compare them to the comparators to find out which ones are not really comparing comparators. But you can go into. The tools that can assist you to find out what keywords are getting the most hits, the most volume. So if Ubersuggest is one and as a disclaimer, I'm not pushing out to Ubersuggest. This is I'm not an affiliate with them, which is just a tool you can use. Ubersuggest is one of them. There's Ahrefs. They have some free tools as well. There's multiple tools you can go in to help you discover which keywords. And then when we say keywords, we're not just talking about one what they call as a short tail keyword. Like for instance, dog, you're not going to look for dog because if you look for dog, everybody, their dog literally is going to be on there. Right? But there's also long tail keywords, more like phrases. You can say dog collar, you're looking for a dog collar specifically. So these are these are the things you need to keep in mind as you're looking for these keywords. And it's important. It's a little hard when you already have a website and you're trying to build around keywords. Like Heather said, first let's build a website. You know what industry you're in, what you're doing here.

Elliot: [00:14:43] Obviously we're talking about therapists, so you're going to build your website and you're going to start looking for keywords around therapy. Or if you're specializing as a therapist, what kind of things are you specializing in? That's the very first step of SEO really is having that keyword building, that website. You can get into a lot of other things. There's a lot of other um, you go down some rabbit holes, go down rabbit holes, you can have courses, multiple things you can do. But this is the basic key thing to do to start with getting those keywords, building the content, mainly just having the content. Um, then as you're optimizing, you're going to have to go back in. It's, it takes six months to a year to actually. Even start ranking, you know, you're going to probably be in the second page. But if you want to move up in the first page and move up higher, it's a long term process, 6 to 12 months, something you'll have to look at weekly. It is time consuming. It's not rocket science. It's something anybody can dive into. There's a wealth of information out there on the Internet to assist, or you can come to like Heather and myself and we can assist you and help you out with that.

Heather: [00:15:49] So one of the things that we do with our clients is not just like, obviously we work with them to create, identify the keywords, to build content around those keywords on their home page and their about page and all those pages. But then once their site is done, then we work with like creating blog posts and, you know, using the keywords to then create blog posts. And one of the big things that I'm a huge proponent of in blog posts and you guys will find this if you go and start reading my blog, is that if you just answer the questions that they ask. You will. You will have great results, in my opinion, like start, like make a list. What are all the questions that people ask you? What are the FAQs? And then write blog posts on those. If you're, you know, like a speech therapy clinic and someone asks you what are the you know, what should I be looking for in my child to see if they have a speech delay, write a blog post on it. If you, you know, are a physical therapist and and you know what are three common reasons for for back pain write a blog post on it like because someone's going to look for why do I have back pain and then all of a sudden, guess what, your blog post is going to come up. So answer the questions. And I get this from, you know, this is not just like something that I just pulled out of nowhere, but they ask you answer. It's a book by Marcus Sheridan and incredible. He's had incredible results on his website and then ended up building like a whole, you know, digital agency as a result of answering the questions that they have because that's what people are going to go searching for.

Heather: [00:17:44] They may look for therapists near me, but more than likely like what Elliot was talking about when he talked about look for things that might not be quite as common. They might say, Hey, why? Why am I having migraines all the time? Why is this? Why is that so become the the the answer become the solution to their question. And and you will you will drive results to your site and increase business. Um, you know, obviously these things take time. There are a few things that we could go on and on about all the things you could do for your website, but absolutely, um, some, some fast things, some quick, some quick wins, I guess I should say. Maybe we should talk about some quick wins, make sure your images are optimized. And what I mean by that is that they are the right size for viewing. Make sure you have good hosting website hosting if you're hosting is. You know, your brothers, uncles, cousin, whatever, decided to offer you hosting? Beware. Because if you're hosting is slow, your website is slow. Guess what's going to increase your bounce rate? Bounce rate? Yep. Um, so just doing just a few of those little what are some other just really quick wins that you could say. Make sure there's no dead links on your website, right? That's another one. Meaning like a link that goes into oblivion, you know?

Elliot: [00:19:16] Yeah. The 4 or 3 links when you see three errors. Yeah, it's called. Yeah, it's.

Heather: [00:19:21] Called a four. What is it? Three errors. Yeah. 403 error. And that just means it's a dead link.

Elliot: [00:19:27] That's where you have to go in and redirect it. So again, that's where we can assist you. But like you said, you can just go down in a rabbit hole. There's so many things. But going back, the biggest thing obviously you have to have a website, keywords have to have keywords. And more importantly, I think that's what Heather is driving at, is just content. Make sure you build the content and the blogs and and be out there. You know, these blogs are to be linking back to your to your web page. Make sure you do that, link them back.

Heather: [00:19:59] So our challenge for you for this episode is just do one thing. Just just pick one thing. You know, like I said, you know, SEO can be overwhelming. It could you can go down rabbit holes easily. You can be like. It can be so overwhelming. You're like, Forget it. I don't care. Like, I get it. But just pick one thing. Just decide, you know, what if I just if I write a blog post once a month, like, you know, you don't have to like, this isn't something that you need to, like, dedicate your whole entire life to and decide that, you know, you need to carve out six hours a week or whatever it is. It's a slow process. I do have you know, I would say that the more you're building out, the faster your results are going to show. But doing something is going to benefit you in some way. And so actually, that goes to another quote. Julie Joyce, who's the owner of Link Fish Media. She says almost anything can be improved in some way. So make small, you know, like. Little changes on your website make small little changes. Add a blog, do this, do that, whatever. Just little tiny things will add more SEO. Oh, I have another quick one before we go. If you are a local, um, if you are a local business, meaning that you serve a local population. Put the areas that you serve on your site, put your city on your site, Just put your address, put your address on there, put your address on your site so that and you know, so that people can find you just that right there. Quick win. Make sure that your address is there. So any other parting words before we go, Elliot?

Elliot: [00:21:56] No, I think we've hit all the major points. Just what I think the biggest thing is, is when you build that website. Just make sure you have the right content, you know, make sure you know who your audience is and just write nice content. Make sure it's nice and clear. That's the biggest thing. Honestly, that's one major thing I've been noticing that Google is changing is it's becoming a lot more intelligent. I've said this already and I just want to emphasize it.

Heather: [00:22:29] So yeah. Content, content.

Elliot: [00:22:32] Content. Content. Content content. Exactly.

Heather: [00:22:35] Thank you, guys. Thanks so much, Elliot, for being on my being my surprise guest. Surprise in multiple ways. So not only was he a surprise to you, but it was a surprise to him, too. But thank you for being on this. And we will probably have him again. Maybe we'll give him, like, you know, a little bit more notice. But I just thought, you know, I'm doing a podcast on SEO. I should probably have an SEO expert with me to help me out. So there was one easily accessible. Um, so anyways, so again, you guys keep doing what you're doing, keep, you know, just small little shifts in your marketing make a difference. And I just want to leave by saying happy marketing, y'all. Until next time.

Elliot: [00:23:28] Bye.

HeatherH: [00:23:29] We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Sarah: [00:01:02] By having us.

Heather: [00:01:06] So let's just jump right into it. You have been in business for four and a half years, right? Yes. Yes. And then how long have you both been SLPs? Speech language pathologists before that?

Melissa: [00:01:22] I'm in my 20th year. I know it makes me sound old, but I used to be experienced. Yes.

Sarah: [00:01:30] And I'm in my 12th year. Yes.

Heather: [00:01:32] Yeah, yeah. No, that just goes for experience. Melissa. That's all right. Um, and then what made you guys open? We are better together.

Melissa: [00:01:45] I think that we just we saw a need in the community and we had a lot of people that we had made connections with in a previous job and in the schools that we were currently working in that were like, When are you opening? We need help. We need you to help see these kids. And we were just like, Well, I think we can do it. And so we came together and we spent about a year trying to kind of come up with the the game plan. And we wanted to make sure that we would have everything in place and ready and no questions. And like everything, we have to be planners, I guess, just to like make sure that it was going to work before we did it. And then then we did. And it's been crazy. And we've grown a ton. And we just keep growing in.

Heather: [00:02:38] More ways than one, right?

Sarah: [00:02:40] More ways than one. Yes. Part of the planning process, too. We wanted to make sure we had everything planned out because we didn't want we knew we wanted to be business owners, but we also wanted to still be speech therapists. So we wanted to go into it knowing everything ahead of time and knowing we had the time to commit to being business owners, but also still being able to be speech therapists and and work in the field. So we've managed to do that the whole time and we're very proud of that. So I love that. I love that you.

Heather: [00:03:08] That you still have that goal, to still be seeing clients and working with clients, because being a business owner is, is hard work just in that of itself and then trying to see clients on top of that, that's it's a lot more work. So I love that you guys have that goal and it helps you to stay in touch with not only just the industry, but with, you know, with your clients.

[00:03:32] For sure. Yeah.

Sarah: [00:03:33] Well, I think.

Melissa: [00:03:33] That the employees that we work with, they are glad that it's not just some management telling them what to do, but that we have experience as therapists and we've been through the things and the struggles that they are dealing with and we're able to problem solve that with them.

Heather: [00:03:51] Yeah, Yeah. And I know that when you guys were establishing your business, you did have some, some things that you had noticed in prior work experiences that you wanted to make sure to avoid. Right? That you were like I've seen where maybe, you know, in the culture isn't right or something like that. So you wanted to be aware of that in the planning process?

Sarah: [00:04:12] For sure, yeah. We had a lot of a long list. Our biggest thing was wanting to work with cool people and being able to take care of our employees. Like we weren't going to start something if we couldn't take care of them and have, you know, kind of like a family, I guess. And so that was kind of one of our main goals is, was that and but also like when we interview people, I mean, we want to be their friend. Like that's, you know, that like we want that to have a, um, you know, have that feeling about them when we interview them and like they would fit, like maybe they don't like exactly everything we do and they're not, you know, maybe in a different set of time of life, but, but they have the same values and drive, I guess. And so that's, that's kind of what we were looking for.

Heather: [00:04:54] Yeah, you guys have done a lot to really ensure that that culture, that right culture is there and that everyone feels connected and a part of the community. I think that's great. Um, so one of the things when you guys first started, if I remember correctly, really, you started with like a couple of school contracts, correct?

Sarah: [00:05:15] Yes. Yeah, we both had individual school contracts kind of in rural areas out here.

Heather: [00:05:22] And how did you go about getting those? Like what? We're kind of some of the first steps.

Melissa: [00:05:29] I think that what we were both leaving a previous employer and we knew that we didn't want to step on anyone's toes. We wanted to, you know, make it like we weren't stealing any of our clients or anything like that. And so we were like, We just need to, like, start fresh. So we reached out to some of the surrounding school districts and say, This is what we have to offer for you. We had done contracting before with a with our previous employer, and so we knew that that was an option. And we knew that that was going to be helpful in meeting our goals to open a business is that, you know, we weren't going to be working five days a week for someone else. We wanted to to start our own thing. And so we ended up going separately to on our own for a little bit. And then when we opened Better together, we came back together and started and then we incorporated our previous into that, out into Better Together. Yeah, we had already been working for the district, so they trusted us and they knew what we were going to offer.

Heather: [00:06:36] Do you do you guys have like kind of an ideal district or school that you like to work with? Are you have you like kind of identified things that you like versus things that you don't like when you know, like maybe size or location or anything like that?

Melissa: [00:06:54] Like smaller schools?

Sarah: [00:06:55] Yeah, small. I love the small towns and that's kind of what we both picked. Um, I grew up in a small town, and so the school district that I am still a part of that I started working at six years ago, five years, however many years ago. Uh, they, it's very similar to my home town district and I would say very similarly run. And so it kind of felt like home to me. I see preschool all the way through high school, so it's really fun to be able to see like that whole transition. I mean, I have a student, you know, who transitioned to middle school a couple of years ago, and I've got to see her from the time she was, you know, in elementary all the way up. So that's that's fun. And I love that. Yeah. Um, yeah, when we take.

Heather: [00:07:35] Definitely. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Melissa: [00:07:37] I was just going to say, when we take contracts, it's sometimes nice to have a few littler charter schools or some smaller contracts to fit in nooks and crannies and the. And the girls schedules. Just because, you know, it's easy to run and go see five kids at at a charter school on a Wednesday that you don't have a lot of other kids. And so those are kind of nice to piece in to fill a full schedule. Um, and we have a lot of employees that want to work both at the clinic and at school. And so it kind of gives them a feel for both.

Sarah: [00:08:10] Mm hmm.

Heather: [00:08:11] Yeah. So what are some of the things that you've learned along the way? Because I know that, you know, there's definitely a learning curve in working with schools and developing contracts and identifying the kind of schools that you want to work with and things like that.

Melissa: [00:08:27] Yeah, I think in this day and age where like we are seeing such a shortage in therapists that it's hard to not just grab onto whoever we get to apply and just give them a job just to have a warm body fill a position. Because we know that a little bit from experience that that doesn't always work and ends up being a lot of work for us. And it also, you know, threatens your reputation within the community, too, because someone's not representing you the way that that we would. And so, you know, we don't want to have to like let people go because we feel like that we are trying to build that culture and family. And so we feel like that it's better to kind of vet people ahead of time and just make sure that they're the right fit before making a commitment, I guess.

Sarah: [00:09:19] Yeah. And along those same lines, not taking every school contract that jumps out at us as well, because we've definitely made that mistake in the past of taking anything and everything that would come up. And then we're working more than we can even think.

Melissa: [00:09:35] We have like a big heart and then we want we see these people and they're like, but we need help. And then Sarah and I are like, Well, we don't want to do that to the employee, so we'll just take that on. And then by Christmas time we're like, Oh my goodness, this is a lot like, What were we thinking? We don't have enough time. So I guess learning to say no is something we both have had to work on.

Heather: [00:09:57] Yeah. Um, now, I think you said, Sarah, that one of the things you do is that you, you learn a lot more about the school or the district or whatever so that you can understand them better and know that if it's a good contract or if it's something that will fit within your business model, right?

Sarah: [00:10:16] Yeah, we do ask a lot more questions now when we take school contracts, if they're new to us, if it's somebody we we don't know, currently we're spread throughout. Different school districts. So we have quite a few different and that's including some charter schools as well. There's a couple of charter schools in the same school district. So but yeah, asking questions and making sure that we know fully what they need us for and what our role is going to be, and then making sure we have the therapists to fill that role. Also, we don't ever want to just take a school contract and throw a therapist there that's not really comfortable. Maybe seeing high school students or if that school has an extended resource room or a behavior, you know, classroom for students who have different kinds of behaviors. We don't want to put a therapist there that might not feel comfortable or be as experienced in treating kids with, you know, those areas in those areas. And so we just kind of we always want to make sure it's a good fit for the therapist when when we place them there and when we take a school contract, when somebody contacts us, we kind of already have in mind who we might want to put there if they like us and we like them just based on, you know, we know our therapists pretty well too, in their age ranges and what they like. And so we kind of always have that in the back of our head when we take a school contract. Well, you know, this might be a good fit for. And so.

Melissa: [00:11:35] Yeah, we, you know, we our degree is so broad and we can see mean birth to death like the whole range. But we know that we've narrowed down to schools. But even within that, not all therapists are good with little tiny preschoolers or infants, and not all therapists are good with high school kids. And so we it's nice to have that variety and be able to kind of match people up with what they feel comfortable with. Um, and then another. I would say another thing. Sorry to step back, but like, the thing about what we've learned is along that same line is that there's a lot of therapists that will come to us and they'll say, I want to make a change. Say they've worked in a skilled nursing facility for, you know, 40 years, and they're like, I just want to work with kids because that sounds fun. Um, and then they come to this setting and think they have no idea what they're getting into and no idea how to write IEPs and to do some of that school or little kid activities. And it just seems fun. And I've seen that backfire a couple of times along the way. And I just I guess, would just really caution people that are going to make such a drastic change without, you know, really knowing what they're getting into.

Heather: [00:12:53] Yeah, definitely. Um, I love that you want to fit. Find something that fits right for your therapist as well as right for the school so that you create that win win for everyone. And everyone's happy. They're all, you know, especially the therapists. They're feeling like they are fulfilling their purpose, and then the school is fulfilling their their students needs. So it's really a win win. So one of the things that I love that you guys do is that, you know, one of the things with school contracts is that schools typically, you know, nine months out of the year. And so if you have a lot of therapists and then with summer, there's kind of that, what do you do with your therapist? And I love some of the things that you guys have done with your summer camps. And not only does it give like, is it, you know, something for to offer, but then it also helps kids during the summer to maintain their skills. So I can speak one of my kiddos, two of my kiddos actually went through your summer camp several years ago and they loved it. They had so much fun. So I was really impressed. I've always been really impressed with your summer camps. So speak to me about that. What does that look like?

Sarah: [00:14:10] It's a lot of planning, a lot of carried up. We usually start planning brainstorming ideas like come January, February, just big broad ideas and then narrowing them down by spring break because that's when we start advertising what we're doing. When the when the dates are parents are already by spring break thinking about the summer and what they're what they're wanting, or if they're needing extra care for their kids during the summer or if they're needing extra programs for them to do. And so kind of having the the schedule down then and then really we this last we learn a lot every year. So every year we kind of take a couple more steps forward based on things we learned from last year. So something we learned two years ago was that we wanted to have more therapists plan them. So there was a variety of activities and there was just different things going on every time. Sometimes you have therapists who are more geared toward planning little kid things or big kid things, and then we were finding that that was hard. You know, you get this box of stuff for every summer camp and and you have a we have a kid come in and they don't like any of the toys in that activity box that we had.

Sarah: [00:15:21] So we had a committee last year of made of four different therapists and OT and three speech therapists. And that committee planned the themes and they planned the activities within those themes like down to every minute detail. They basically mean they have like a schedule that they had used that we have used for the past few years, and they tweaked that to make sure we fit what we needed going forward and and then planned all the activities and crafts and snacks and all that kind of stuff, having new people help plan it that have done it before and people who haven't done it before was awesome because they brought new ideas to the team and new things for that because a lot of times these are the same kids that participate in our summer camps every summer. So it's a little bit we did a little bit different things this summer and it was they had a lot of fun with that.

Melissa: [00:16:10] So so when we do those themes, we have everything geared around our snack is around our book is around the theme, our craft like every single thing. And so that's where she's saying it takes a lot of work to to do that but feel like it's worth it. Um, we have, you know, been able to expand out to more some of our rural school districts. They aren't able to kind of come into the metro area that we are. Our office is just with limitation, with like funds and being able to drive in that far. And so we've been coming to them and with those connections that we've made with our administration, they've been allowing us to use space there because they have seen the impact that it's had on their kiddos. And so they want us to be able to to keep providing that. And so they've been very good and hospitable to letting us come in.

Heather: [00:17:05] That's great. Um, are the, the programs, the summer camps, are they typically like a one week they go through or do they continue on throughout the whole entire summer? What does that usually look like?

Melissa: [00:17:15] We do two four week sessions. You can do the whole thing because it would be different. We do eight weeks total and every week is different along that eight weeks. So it would be functional for them to come to every week, but they could do just the four weeks we do four weeks before 4th of July, take a week off, and then we do four weeks before or sorry, after 4th of July. And that actually ends up being perfect because some of the schools start like really soon into August. And so it just kind of gives them maybe one more week and then they start back up to school and they're not losing a lot of skills because they've been working on them most of the summer. Yeah.

Heather: [00:17:56] What age is typically are these other summer camps for?

Melissa: [00:18:01] Like school age, like kindergarten through.

Sarah: [00:18:03] Fifth grade, I would say. We've had an occasional kid that's a little younger or older that fit in. If they are outside that age range, we usually make sure that they're it's recommended by their therapist here and they have. Last summer, if we had a couple kids that came, they had to come and do an evaluation here and then, you know, have 3 or 4 therapy sessions beforehand. So the therapist could really make sure that that would be a good recommendation and fit for them to to come. But typically kindergarten through fifth grade.

Sarah: [00:18:31] Yeah.

Melissa: [00:18:32] And we want we just and I know we had chatted a little bit about it but we had we have just hired a health coach to work with us and in doing and starting that, she has kind of sent out a need survey to our staff and to our parents about what we feel like that, you know, we could offer to them. That would help. And one of the the key areas is kind of the the adolescent group into young adults. And so we are hoping to be able to with taking on that health coach position, being able to add some some different programs for a little bit older kids that target their their needs as well.

Heather: [00:19:12] Yeah, I love that you asked the community, um, you know, and you saw that there's a need after asking and figuring it out and, you know, and kind of brainstorming, well, what could we offer to the community that's so great?

Melissa: [00:19:26] And sorry, one more person we did ask. Sorry, was we asked the health coaches at the doctor's office or the health health coaches care coordinators at the doctor's offices, because they're the ones that are trying to find programs for kids. And we are asking them to like what are what are the needs? What what can we help you with? When you look in this area, what what is lacking? And so I feel like that that's been a good business. Building opportunity, too, is just working closely with the care coordinators.

Sarah: [00:19:58] Yeah.

Heather: [00:19:59] Yeah. And really that that age group is so underserved at times as far as and it's more challenging. You know, you can't just bring out some kind of little craft and be like, Hey, let's work on this with your sounds. It's a little bit it's a little bit more extra work for you guys, I'm sure. But I love that you, you know, are always looking for more opportunities to serve the community in that way. So, um, so what are some takeaways? We always like to finish the podcast with maybe a challenge or a takeaway, um, for our listeners.

Melissa: [00:20:34] I think think outside the box. We don't want we don't want to be stagnant. We don't want to be or we don't want our kids to be bored. We want to be constantly changing and making things better. We don't want it to be a typical, uh, not a typical I shouldn't say that, but we don't want a therapy clinic where you just come in to your therapy, you go home. We want to have the the patients that come to our clinic feel like that we are a part of the family. We can help them with other resources. We we want to be part of their life and not just come in, come out like 30 minute sessions or 45 minute sessions and then not see you again till the next week. So think there's always some way to help people and being creative and having those people that work for you that want to be part of that mission is 100% what makes us successful.

Heather: [00:21:37] Yeah. And I think it really encapsulates, you know, your name. We are better together. So really, you know, that idea that if you're working together towards a common goal, you're able to serve your clients better. So. Well, Thank you guys so much for being on the podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Um, and I just want to, you know, challenge everyone to think outside the box. Like they said, I really do think that when you can learn from other therapists and see what they're doing, you're able to grow your own business. So happy marketing you all and we'll see you next time. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you are interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C Digital Media Network dot com or therapy marketing solutions.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

[00:02:23] It makes your business look more professional, it legitimate. It makes your business look legitimate. Because if you don't have a good design, then people wonder, is this a hobby? Is this a side business? Like they just they feel it. And that's the big thing with appeal is when it's not appealing. People notice that is even. Good design. You know. Just looks good. People think it looks good. They don't really think a lot about it. Bad design. Bad design is noticeable. People notice bad design. They realize that something is off. There's just seems to be like this tension about it. So there are a couple of rules when when you want to when you're designing something, first off, you want to keep your colors and your fonts consistent. You want to make sure that you are using the same fonts on your website, on your social media. On your. In your logo, like be consistent in colors and. Fonts. When you are consistent, people recognize your brand. If you saw the Golden Arches, which obviously I'm referring to McDonald's in pink or Orange something, you'd be like, what is that, a different company? There's just it's just not right. So consistent in colors and fonts. And then you want to make sure that your colors and fonts are appropriate for your audience. What that means is that you probably don't want to use. Have you ever seen that font that looks like chalk? You probably don't want to use that if you're law office, right? That just wouldn't really set you up as a professional business. So you want to make sure that your colors and your fonts are appropriate for the the audience that you are catering to. So if you are catering to children, like if you're. A. Pediatric therapy, you're obviously have a lot more play with being. You can be playful with your colors and fonts a little bit more if you and that's not to say that you can't use bright colors if you're if your business is geared towards adults, that does not mean that. But we just just be thoughtful in your colors and your fonts and please do not use comic sans, comic sans or papyrus for fonts.

[00:04:50] That's all I'm going to say about that. They are not considered real fonts in the design world. There are several others, but I won't go into those. Those are the most popular that people tend to use. And then the last idea really with the appeal factor is that less is more. If you over design your flier or website, it becomes overwhelming. Don't you don't need to try to fill up every nook and cranny. Of. Of your website or your flier or whatever, you know, white space, as it's called, which is the negative space that is not being. Used. Is is good. It allows the design to breathe. And. It allows people to be able to really take in what you have on on your flier or on your website or whatever they're able to to digest it. Better. And to understand it. So Ellen Lupton, she's a designer and educator. She says design is as much an act of spacing as an act of marking. And so that's where that space you need to let it breathe. Don't feel like every little thing needs to be We need to have something in this corner or whatever. There is a balance to that, obviously. But but I think more people tend to make the mistake of over designing versus under designing. Oc. So function. Function. What does that have to do with design? That isn't something that a lot of people really think about in design. Well, your design needs to be functional, especially when it comes to your website. When you are creating your website, you need to make sure that your design makes sense, that the layout of your website makes sense and and even to the point of your navigation menu to your different pages. Those need to be designed thoughtfully. So you don't want to get too crazy on your design that no one can find the other pages. You also want to make sure that it just makes sense again for your audience. Steve Jobs says design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works. Could you imagine if Apple made the most beautiful iPhone ever but it didn't function?

[00:07:21] And that's the same thing with your website or whatever you are designing. It needs to be functional, it needs to make sense and it needs to be easy to navigate. That's part of the design, especially with a website. You need to be able to navigate it well. So design is about marrying functionality with esthetics. Your website needs to be able to function. It needs to be easy to navigate and needs to look good. There is a strategy to good design. It's not just throwing a bunch of colors here and there and filling a bunch of boxes or whatever. But on the other side, it's interesting because good design actually looks very effortless. It goes back to that thing that that idea. That. People notice bad design a lot more than good design because good design is comforting. It's it feels right. And often we feel we notice the negative feelings before we ever. Notice the. The good feelings. So third story, again, as Story Brand certified guide, this should come know as no surprise to you that design needs to have a story. Lorinda Mamo, who's a designer, said every great design begins with an even better story. So one mistake that I see a lot of business owners make is they first hire a web designer and then they go and look for a copywriter. And in reality, it needs to be the other way around. If you create your design, then all of a sudden you're trying to squish content in the spaces that are available for it. When in reality, if you create your content with a strategy, then you're able to create a design around it. And I mean, you don't want to like, be able to like, Oh, I only have room for like a sentence or two in this one section when in reality you need more to really explain your services. So you want to be able to make sure that you have the space. And. The layout that makes sense for the words on your site. So. You know, if if a prospect who's coming to your site, if you really think about it, the determining factor in whether they pick you or another therapist is is what is said on your site.

[00:09:48] So if the if what you're saying, the content, the copy, the words resonate with them, then they're going to say, yes, this is the therapist for me. This is the person I want to work with. And so we really need to focus on content first and then to create an incredible design that tells a story around your content. Great design brings your message, your brand, and the elements all into an inviting story. If you. Really think about it, it's like if you had a present or a. Gift. The content is the present and the design is the wrapping and the bow around it. It's beautiful, it looks great. But other than to kind of decorate the box, it doesn't really. Have. A ton. Of. Of reason behind it. Really what we want to do is we want to open that box, we want to read the content and we want to find that. There's. Depth and layers to your website and to anything, really. So what are the three things? Again, we want to make sure that we that our design is appealing. If you're not sure if it's appealing, ask someone, ask your email clients. We want to make sure that it functions well. Again, you can ask them because if they are not familiar with it, they'll tell you. They're like, Well, I don't really get why this buttons are here or where it goes or what the purpose of that is. And then you really want to make sure that your design creates a story, that it invites them further in on the website. It's kind of like little breadcrumbs bringing you in further. So challenge for this week, just do it as Nike says. Just do it. Don't be afraid of it. I hope after talking about design that I have gotten more excited about it versus made you afraid of it. Get your hands dirty and don't be afraid to make mistakes. I mean, when I first started as a graphic web designer, not everything was beautiful. I'll just be right out blunt with you. Not everything was. Beautiful. So Paula Shear, who's a graphic designer and painter, says it's through mistakes that you actually can grow.

[00:12:09] You have to get bad in order to get good. And I 100% agree with that. I have like I said, I have design things that I'm like, what is wrong with that? And then redesigned it and I'm like, okay, I had to. I had it. Sometimes even in my design process, the first thing I make is ugly. And then from there I'm like, Well, that's not right. Something doesn't feel right. And then from there, all of a sudden these ideas come. And so it's almost like I have to purposely design something bad in order to design something great afterwards. I don't know if that's a part of my process or what. But it's exploring new ideas. And so, you know, working through that being don't be afraid, just jump in and do it and have fun with it and get creative with it. So just want to send that out there for the challenge of the week. Just do it to get your hands dirty. Thank you guys for coming to this episode. Listening. I'd love to see comments and thoughts on on this episode and design as well. And happy marketing you all Until next time. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you're interested in learning more about marketing, check out my blogs at 3C. Digital Media networks or Therapy Marketing Solutions. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.

Rolf: [00:00:57] Well, hey, how are you? Nice to have. Thanks for having.

Heather: [00:00:59] Me. Yes. Thank you so much for being here. You know, kind of how I envisioned this episode or how it came to be is like many people within who work with HIPPAA and I work with a lot of clients who have HIPPAA, who HIPPAA is a concern. You know, I went down that rabbit hole and I started researching and reading and you can spin out days, really not hours, days, researching HIPPAA and trying to understand it. So I thought, what a better solution than to have a lawyer come and talk to us about HIPPAA and get a deeper understanding of what HIPPAA is, how you should be using it in your business to protect yourself, and then, of course, to protect your client's privacy. So first off, I'd love to hear a little bit about your firm, Locklear Associates, what you do, how long you've been in business, where you're located, things like that.

Rolf: [00:01:58] So we're we're a health care law firm, primarily focused on servicing providers and people that work in the industry handle a range of matters. A lot of federal and state regulatory guidance payer disputes things along that nature, business matters. And then obviously for the thing that I'm here to talk about is patient privacy and confidentiality. And that is a category that is not just concerned with HIPPAA, but there's also state laws and people's professional obligations under their respective profession. And then then there's things out there that are I'm not sure that a lot of people you work with. Right. But there are privacy statutes for substance abuse regulations, people who can't provide that kind of treatment. And as as we kind of get through this. Right. I don't think I think that the marks should be always be that you have always had a duty of confidentiality to the people that you are treating as patients. It goes back hundreds of years, your professional societies, your state boards all imposed those confidentiality requirements on it. HIPPA is a little bit of a nuance because it brings in this term covered entity. A lot of people wonder if they are a covered entity and it focuses more on the hook of the payment for services that's electronically transmitted to typically a payer that brings HIPPAA oversight and the federal government, Health and Human services into your practice.

Heather: [00:03:37] So, yeah, and you broke it down a little bit. Let's let's just start what is HIPPAA?

Rolf: [00:03:43] So it was a statute that was enacted back in the nineties. Congress was concerned that people's health information was freely transmitted through payor portals, through from providers to everything, so that there was this law that was enacted primarily to protect people's information, which it still does today. And from that, it had some developments in the last 10 to 15 years, I'd say focusing more on the security requirements, things along those lines for the digital age. And so it has really kind of taken off like any legislation. Well, it's developed more legs that you have to pay attention to as you go along. And its design is to basically allow the transmittal of patient information amongst practitioners, insurance companies, and this thing called clearinghouses, which is where a claim goes to get processed, kind of leave that there because it's the third, third component of this that not a lot of people know about. But if you're involved in any billing or transaction things, you'll understand what that is. And the clearinghouse is also carry out some functions for the federal government and some state governments as well. So in a sense it's really just kind of how we are supposed to treat people's information when we have the ability to disclose it with or without consent. What a patient's rights are, that's a big part of HIPPA is that the patient has a right to their information that's in their medical record and that you hold about them. And that is kind of always that we get back to state law, right? A lot of states view their medical record access acts and things like that. Is that that is the patient's information. So you kind of always got to remember that there's the federal government and the state government to always think about in any practice. So if you're practicing in Indiana, you know, you have to take consideration state statutes in Indiana and then figure out if HIPPAA does actually apply to your practice. Hmm.

Heather: [00:05:50] Yeah. And it sounds like what HIPPAA started out as, like you said, with technology changing is different than what it's become. It's kind of evolved throughout the years and changed to shape different services and and how you protect your clients and things like that. So I know that when we talked in the past, one of the big questions is what kind of clinic or practices need to adhere to HIPPAA?

Rolf: [00:06:20] So the kind of the catch, as I said earlier, is, you know, our firm takes a view and other people will as well. And maybe not I mean there's a lot of things about the law is it's reasonable interpretation of something that maybe hasn't been decided. But, you know, a cash based practice that's purely cash based, probably one could argue isn't covered by the HIPPA statutes, but it is the standard of care that's going to be applied, so to speak, in the best practice when it comes to everything state boards that regulate you. Other other enforcement agencies kind of see it as the way to operate. It has a lot of mechanisms in it, but the kind of the hook has always been is, is that you're submitting an electronic claim for reimbursement and the partners that are involved in that process. Right. So you have your practice, you you're billing for services that you provided to either an employer plan, a federal plan such as Medicare and Medicaid, and you're you're submitting that. And once you kind of get into the realm of having one or two, once you do submit an electronic claim, it covers everything, right? So even your cash based business will become covered by those standards. And then there is a there's a reasonable force that, regardless of how you're getting paid, is that this information is expected to be protected and you're supposed to have some security functions in place, a way of operating your business that meets these expectations.

Heather: [00:07:59] Yeah. One of the things that I know that we we were talking before that you said that I really liked, it's not just it's a standard of care and that state boards and things like that expect it. But also, you know, it's something that prospective clients or clinicians or sorry prospective clients expect they, they want to see that their information is, is secure and private. And so it does a lot to build trust and authority, even if you are a cash based business.

Rolf: [00:08:32] Correct. And right. And there's this general consensus about that's in the general public that anything about your health information is protected by hip. So I sit here as an individual and anything that has to do with my health is protected by HEPA. And I can claim some type of hip hop sea privacy right to that. Right. So you'll see this in situations where like recently with with the pandemic that took place in the last couple of years. Right. Somebody may be asked by a restaurant about their vaccine status and the individual will say, well, I don't have to tell you that because that's protected by HIPPAA. Right. That's not really how it works. It's the provider, the covered entity that has a duty to keep that information confidential, Your own information that you carry about you once it gets once you have it and it's out, isn't isn't protected by HIPPAA. If I get a copy of my medical records from my provider. And I lose it somewhere at a Starbucks or any coffee shop or even on the street, and somebody else gains access to that and does a public disclosure of it like my my hip of rights really weren't violated because I had possession of that information.

Rolf: [00:09:42] Not my doctor, not my physical therapist, not the hospital. It was in my possession. I let it out and somebody somebody gave that out, you know, or if somebody has some information that they take to a court hearing that they got after this happens quite a bit. Right. You know, maybe there's a divorce proceeding or something like that. And they know some information about the spouse or everything like that. They have that information. It's been access to them. The covered entity hasn't done anything other than released it, hopefully in a way that was consistent with the rules under HIPPAA. To somebody and now somebody else has access to it. As long as the covered entity is doing the things that they're supposed to be in the covered entity. Again, it's kind of those three areas we talked about the provider, the health insurance company and the clearinghouse. Then they don't really have anything to concern about. Doesn't mean that people will not continue to articulate that they think that their HIPPA rights have been violated.

Heather: [00:10:43] Yeah, yeah, I know that we learned a lot during the pandemic as people were rushing to figure out how to continue to see patients and clients. You know, there was some gray area where people were just like, Well, I think I can do this. I think I can do that. And, you know, like, like meeting via like zoom for HIPPAA came up very quickly in that process is what you how you could meet with patients and clients via video chat and what were the best ways. So we learned a lot during that time I think.

Rolf: [00:11:20] Yeah I mean there was there was, I will say, a little bit of a relaxation on what had been typically been the telemedicine rules for services being rendered. And the requirements for that, particularly in behavioral health, was one area and some other areas, Some other areas. I mean, there are certain services you could never provide over the telephone that people couldn't do. But so, you know, whether or not the patient was in a secure environment communicating with you all, a lot of those things were relaxed. But, you know, and that's a good thing, you know, generally speaking. And the thing that is always kind of needs to be understood with HIPPA is, you know, the patient controls the dialog, the patient controls the records, right? So you as a provider, there are possibilities for you. You know, you want to make sure that you're getting a consent possibly to communicate in a way that HIPPA might not accept as favorable. Right? So, you know, you are allowed as long as the patient understands the risks associated with it, to communicate and platforms or in a way in on a platform that may not be meet the security protocols of what's called the High Tech Act, which is the second part of HIPPA, right? There's HIPPA and there's the high tech Act. And the high tech act really is designed and has a lot of regulations that if you're going to get into them, you just kind of need to understand them. Maybe consult with somebody who's got some privacy experience and certainly some security experience. You know how you're supposed to hold that information? Transmit that information. What do you do when you have a when you have a leak of that information and things like that? So there's a lot of broad things that come under this statute. And it's it's not easy to cover just an hour with you or 45 minutes however we spend.

Heather: [00:13:08] Yeah, definitely. There's so much to know. So when do you when does hippies start and when does it end? Like, when do you need to ensure that HIPPAA is in place? And we kind of talked about this before, how things are changing, especially in recent news.

Rolf: [00:13:26] Yeah, right. So, so you're if you, if you find yourself deemed as a covered entity. Right. So then the the regulations are going to apply to you. Now, granted, there's a reasonableness in this statue, right? Because there's a lot of solo practitioners and things like that that may have operations, but all the expectations are there from you format for person shop, right? You know, you got like maybe three providers and an office person, let's say. So a large health system that covers many states. I think the concepts and everything is the same. So when people are coming to you to seek services from you, right, you're kind of opening the door for treating that information confidential. It's really no different than if somebody had called your office and you got kind of like always with these with these concepts that are new with this digital age, right? If somebody calls your office saying, Hey, you know what? I have this condition and I'm looking for a provider that can provide this type of treatment that I'm looking for. I mean, that phone call, whether or not they show up for their appointment, that you schedule out two weeks, you're going to keep that information confidential. You're taking a query in and talking to someone, Right? So you have a duty to keep things confidential going forward.

Rolf: [00:14:43] So the trigger is almost there. As soon as the person finds you, accesses you on your website or whatever it might be, once they kind of respond back, I'd say, Right, you're there. And then the hook will always be as well is if they are a truly an existing patient. Mm hmm. So if you're sending out a mass email, Right. I mean, how that works out, right? You can't. You can't. You've got to take into consideration that that marketing email, if you've gotten the proper consent to do the marketing to existing patients through your through your privacy practices that you have in place, that you can go ahead and do that and then you do that in a certain way. And then you've got to understand that the people that you're working with to to assist you in that are not handling as well protected health information under HIPPAA and they're out, you have an obligation to make sure that they're treating that information with the same expectations of you. And those people are typically called business associates. And you're supposed to have a business associate agreement in place with them.

Heather: [00:15:48] Yeah. So two things. One is a lot of businesses that I work with and and actually one of the marketing things that we put into place, aside from just creating a website, would be something like a lead generator where, you know, it's five ways to to help with anxiety or five things to do if with chronic back pain, whatever it is, it's something where someone gives you possibly their name and their email for a PDF or video or whatever. And from there you can email, continue emailing based on HIPPAA and talking about where does it start, where does it end. So, you know, I work with a lot of clients. Part of the marketing that we do is not just a website, but also creating what's called the lead generator, where on their website they have something like five, you know, five exercises you can do for chronic pain or five ways to beat or not beat or to cope with anxiety or stress, something like that where a client or a prospective client let me be clear on that, or someone visiting your website would enter in their name and their email. For that they receive like a PDF or a video or something, and then they're then therefore added to like an email campaign. So with what does that mean for HIPPAA?

Rolf: [00:17:26] So here's the thing. Let's go back to that phone call to the office. Right. So it's just, you know, we're just in. We're in a different time. You can always kind of apply some things that would have been the same way, right? So if someone's just punching around on your website and looking around. Right. Typically depend on who your website, who your provider is. Right. That you're collecting information, right? I mean, that website is collecting information about people. So once someone takes an active step to basically be interested in your product, to provide you with their information that they may be receiving services, that's where you want to have a little bit more of a heightened stance with respect to that and make sure people understand when they're when they're giving you their information, what they're kind of getting themselves into. But you have that standard. Usually there's a standard consent that they can view. When they come on like most websites usually, but some websites don't even have it. They'll go to them, right? Somebody created something and and that's their. So as you're taking that information and if they become a patient of the practice, you're going to basically treat it almost the same way you would if they receive services from you. Right. And they become a pain client, let's say. Right. As you take that information, When you're taking that information, you'd want to just make sure that they're consenting to give their information to you. It's a really a standard thing. And there's a lot of other like the crazy thing about this whole world we live in now with this global reach that we have, right? You got people that are coming in and accessing you from different countries all around the world who have all of these. I think it's like last time I counted or saw was like 173 countries that have some form of privacy law in place for people's information when they come to you.

Rolf: [00:19:20] Right. It's it's too much for somebody who's like you can't fathom trying to accommodate all those laws with your face fronting website for your business. Right. So, you know, kind of really the whole thing is, is that people just understand that they are that they've had it when they you know, you check that box, right. That they had a chance to review your privacy policy or whatever you have in place as they come through. Right. To give you that information. Right. I think that some I don't know that. There's kind of a different viewpoint, right? You're kind of just really, you know, it's as if someone's picking up a brochure or stopping by your office kind of thing. It's something like that or inquiring. But the safe side that we kind of consult with our clients is that anybody who's coming in to you and giving you your information, you should protect. Because the other thing that I'm going to tell you is that there are. Every state in the country has a Data Privacy Protection Act that is more far reaching than just for health care. Oftentimes, these privacy protection acts will tell you that if you're regulated by HIPPAA, that that will apply to you instead of this this state law. And they take all different kind of forms as far as what your notification obligations are. If you lose somebody's information. But really, a lot of it is just collecting someone's name and an email address, because that's the value to have is that the marketing tool is the email address. Right? It's almost it's more valuable than the name.

Heather: [00:20:56] Yeah, absolutely.

Rolf: [00:20:58] So, you know, as you take that in, you just want to make sure that people understand them. When they're giving you that information, they understand that they're submitting information over the Internet. All of these things are usually kind of there. There's a lot of boilerplate stuff. You can get some other things because the other next step is that once you establish a rapport and you have the patient in your office, right. And then you want to communicate with them and first things that are not marketing. Mm hmm. Typically when you get that, like I'll tell you from my own personal experience, I have some I have a couple of kids, Right. Their health care provider, their pediatrician's office. Right. Is like adamant that they won't email certain situations that we have to go to this portal. Right. Or all these things that take place. It frustrates me when I'm just trying to get something done and I know that they can fax me back or email me back that sports physical. I need to get turned in because my kid just gave it to me the night before and says, Dad, it's due tomorrow, but I either have to go in there in person to get it filled out and all these other things, and they have this strict protocol.

Rolf: [00:22:02] Well, HIPPAA does allow the patient to consent to like an unsecure correspondence. Right. Or to receive text messages. So once they kind of come into your practice, that's really one of the best things to do, is to try to have that consent put in place so that you can communicate them via just a regular SMS messaging or anything like that without the concern is there. Again, they need to understand everything needs to be in writing, that they understand that this information that they're going to transmit back and forth with you is out there on the, I guess, so-called the World Wide Web. Right. So. That that's taken place and it's not secure. And it could be. And the reality of it is right. Everybody understands, right? You can have the most secure system in the world. But if something happens like somebody can, information can be lost. And that leads into other things that when you have a problem, don't ignore it and figure out what you're supposed to do.

Heather: [00:22:58] Yeah, Yeah, I love that. So I think the big idea here is over communicating your privacy policy, ensuring that people understand the ways that you like, letting them opt in to the ways that they can be communicated with and making sure that they're they kind of navigate that side of things, that they're in control as the client, that they understand that if you're sending them a text that that might not be on a secure system and things like that, correct?

Rolf: [00:23:29] Right. I mean, there's there's some people who just want the people to be able to leave the information. I mean, this is all just relative in your risk peoples comfortable ness with risk, Right? Everybody is you know, we're lawyers, we're risk averse. Right. You've got to understand that's what we were training to do, right? That's kind of what our mindset is. But what we want to get to. Yes, right. That's the other thing, too. But, you know, sometimes people just say, well, I have the privacy policy post. They can see it. Right? And then there's times where it's like, okay, right, Maybe you have them just check that box. They acknowledge they had a chance to review it, but. Because that person has gone a step further and basically give an affirmation that I knew I could have reviewed it. I checked the box that I had the opportunity to. So that if they make a complaint or something down the road, for whatever reason it might be, you kind of have that that they actually took an affirmative, you know, and I guess it kind of gets back to that whole thing. I am not a bot, right, that you see on everywhere you go, right? I mean, that person is doing I mean, that's done in a in a sense of a control factor to keep the traffic for the website and everything going forward and all of that just to make you go the extra step. So you just can't kind of just bombard the website for information, but it's the same concept. You're taking that one extra step, which hopefully if something does arise, you can use that to your advantage if you need to.

Heather: [00:24:50] Yeah. So regarding marketing, what could they be doing to protect their their current clients, past clients, their business? Are there any things that they should know, like any steps that they should take to when they're working on their marketing to protect?

Rolf: [00:25:10] So one of the first things, right, that you where you can start is you're supposed to have what's called the notice of privacy practices available to for your patients. Right. That they've acknowledged and received. I think that's kind of really when the person becomes a patient, right? If you have a website. Right, typically you should have this notice of privacy practice available on your website. And within that notice of privacy practice, it should say, you know, you should have within it that you are going to you may use their information for marketing, right? So they understand that I'm giving you this information which has been deemed private by all these regulatory bodies and by me. This person has come to you. Right. And I understand that you may have some information, and I acknowledge that I might receive marketing from you. Right. And you see, that's the start. Right? But then once they kind of come into the fold of the practice, they should almost consent to receiving the marketing as well, because that's that's kind of the step in is, you know, you've created a formal, more formal relationship with the patient now. And a lot of things are not going to be just that somebody was surfing the web and found this of interest.

Heather: [00:26:17] Yeah, yeah, I love that. So even just on your intake form, if you want to say, hey, we send out, you know, marketing or informational tips, newsletters, things like that, would you like it and have them check that.

Rolf: [00:26:33] Box, correct. Right. I mean, it's almost as you know, I mean, it's one of those things where you make, you know, they should have the ability to opt out if they want to. Right. You know, most people are not I would say like this. I'd said like 95% of the people out there are not really sensitive about some of these things, you know? And it always kind of deals with the sensitivity of that protected health information. I mean, if you know, if it's just a. You know, depending on the type of practice that you're doing and what's going on. Right. And we all know that there are things that are more sensitive to people and that there are people that are more sensitive in general.

Heather: [00:27:14] About.

Rolf: [00:27:15] This. So you need to have that window for them to to not get marketed to. And then just understand, like, what is it that I do right? What kind of procedures do I do? What part of the body image creating all of these different types of things? I mean, if somebody is receiving psychotherapy as opposed to basically, you know, going to somewhere that is really more, I'd say, like a physical medicine type place. It's just, you know. Like physical therapy, right? I mean, that's more, you know, somebody suffered an injury, all these other things. Is there an embarrassment associated as much as there is or a stigma even I would call it, because, you know, we still have stigma around behavioral health services in this world for whatever reason. So those are the things you know, there's just a lot of things to consider. And it doesn't really matter if it's a more sensitive health issue or not. You kind of apply the same standards as far as that goes.

Heather: [00:28:16] Yeah, but.

Rolf: [00:28:17] I would say nine times out of ten people are going to not worry about it. And as I give you the example earlier, right, my kids communication with the doctor's office. Right. People want convenience, right? This is the thing. Right. And they want they don't want to they don't want to have all of these two factor authentication codes to go in to get their own, what they consider to be their own information. Now, the problem happens when something happens to it and they feel, oh, do I have the ability to sue somebody under HIPPAA? I mean, the one thing I will say right now is there is no specific private cause of action for a HIPPA violation. You can be fined by the federal government. The state attorney general's can come after you. Right. But it doesn't give an individual like some of the other federal statutes that are out there, a specific cause of action. There are certain states now, California being the leader in it that has kind of their privacy act, does give people the ability to go after somebody for a set amount of damages to start with, if there has been some if their information was handled inappropriately.

Heather: [00:29:24] Yeah, definitely. Well, I always like to leave my listeners with some kind of takeaway and and really, what would that takeaway be for them? How could what can they do to ensure that they are following HIPPAA?

Rolf: [00:29:40] So here's the here's the key thing, right? The key thing is just to be aware of it. To do some training on your own. There's plenty of resources out there. I mean, Health and Human Services has a very as almost too much information, I'd say. Right. But there are some older training videos that would still be relevant for your office staff and everything going on. And then just to make sure that anybody you're doing business with to assist you has an understanding as well, and that whenever you're marketing your services, however it might be, there's all of these regulatory things that come into play, right? I mean, we're talking about marketing and we haven't even gotten into the Anti-kickback statute that can apply to marketing services as well if you're billing for services, right? There's this whole other aspect of marketing that takes place because you can't get paid on a volume or value of a referral, right? I mean, so per click agreements, all of these things, that's a whole different thing you've got to consider. But when it comes to HIPPA, make sure you understand and have an idea. And then the thing is, is it's like if it's remember, I kind of start off, you have a duty to hold people's information in a. We're just in a whole different world now with all of these apps on people's phones and people are using devices that their family members could have access to their accessing it in public. So just to heighten awareness and the one thing I will always say, right, is if you if you have if a problem comes to your attention, it's like a lot of things. The worst thing you can do is just hope that it goes away. You know, you should figure out what's going on and you should have some policies, kind of some office policies in place that that give you an opportunity to show if you ever do have something taking place that you did do the things that were necessary and you treated this information in the correct way. You know, so and also, prevention goes a long way, as I say. Right.

Heather: [00:31:39] Right. Definitely. And I think the big idea also is to, like you said, err on the side of caution. And then if you have additional questions to really contact a lawyer, a hip. A lawyer.

Rolf: [00:31:52] Yeah. And here's the thing. I'll see right there. There's a lot of people who are there's a lot of people who come into health care business, right. From the from the tech world and other things like that, who won't don't always understand these things. And or you as you as somebody in a practice are being told that something's hip compliant. Right. This product and service and and that's that's almost a you're taking somebody at their word there are some products that are out there but these are mostly like electronic medical records and things like that that do get vetted by third party vendor by Health and Human Services and CMS for what they provide because there's a cash incentive for providers to move to electronic medical records. That's a whole different thing, right? So that's kind of give the analogy, right? It's like if I'm buying like in that situation, I'm buying the Cadillac from the Cadillac dealer that I know was made by General Motors and came off the assembly line. In this world that you're dealing with when you have people that are marketing hip products or HIPPA compliant products that haven't gone through this certification process that the federal government has in place, they're just telling you that it's built to the industry standard that HIPPA is is required to have.

Rolf: [00:33:06] Right. Security functions, things like that. What's taking place? Cloud based, server based, all these things, just these crazy things that are a lot to take into. Right. But that's the Cadillac that you're buying. That's two months old out of a wanted. And you're just trusting that it has all of those things, right? So you just want to make sure you ask the right questions, understand what's going on. And again, the whole thing is the other thing I'll say is I don't ignore patients or people that have a make a complaint or do anything or make a request for this or that. Right. Pay attention to that, because when they don't get what they want, they go somewhere else. And that's somewhere else is a regulatory body that all of a sudden ends up contacting you. And you're like, I could have probably taken care of this if I would have just paid attention to the person there. Right? You got to understand that with everything, right? 95% of the. I use that number, right. Everything's going to go smoothly. Right? And every once in a while you have these hiccups that have happened. Pay attention to the hiccups that do come into play.

Heather: [00:34:09] Mm hmm. Great. Well, thank you so much, Rolf. I know we could spend days probably digging into this more.

Rolf: [00:34:19] Things are probably been updated as we spoke, so.

Heather: [00:34:22] Right. There's something new release right now. But thank you very much for taking the time to be on here. So additional reading to really to help you resources to read more and to train your team would be like state regulations. Make sure you understand state regulations and then the associations for your particular field, you know, like make sure that you are very clear on all of that.

Rolf: [00:34:50] Those. They have guidance right now. And as I'll say right, the federal government, they do their best to try to keep things up to date. The Health and Human Services, well, it has a lot of resources. I mean, it's one place we always look because, you know, we don't have. As somebody who works in a privacy field or an attorney. Right. It's like you kind of got to make sure that you're looking at things as well. So a lot of a lot of updates come out along these lines. And sometimes, you know, you just just scratch your head and try to figure out what exactly they want you to do. But usually there's an answer you can find. And again, it's the attempt to try. It's the attempt to be compliant. Right. This is the thing I'm always going to say we're compliance attorneys, Right. If you if you've made an attempt to be compliant and tried, that's better than ignoring it completely. Yes.

Heather: [00:35:38] So what's so good? Definitely. If you know, if you have questions, you can obviously reach out to Ralf and his team at Wycliffe Associates. And again, I appreciate you being on here. So happy marketing you all and make sure that you're you have the information before you for HIPPA as you're working through your marketing process. Have a great day, guys. Thanks.

Rolf: [00:36:05] Thank you, Heather. Take care.

Heather: [00:36:07] Thank you. We're glad you could be here today. Thank you for listening. If you're interested in learning more about marketing. Check out my blogs at 3C. Digital Media networks or Therapy Marketing Solutions dot com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Happy marketing, y'all.